Transcript Disclaimer – Please note that the following transcript has been machine generated by an AI software and therefore may include errors or omissions.

Robin Daly
Hello and welcome to the Yes to Life show. I’m Robin Daly and I’m hosting the show as usual. I’m also the founder of the UK charity Yes to Life that supports people with cancer in taking an integrative approach to their treatment and recovery, a holistic approach that includes a broad range of lifestyle and complementary therapies. An important factor in the increasing awareness of integrative medicine for cancer over recent years has been the arrival of the dedicated Facebook groups of which there are now many and some of which have attracted tens of thousands of members. Healing Cancer Study Support Group is one such Facebook group and it was set up and is still led by Abbey Mitchell. Today I’m speaking to Abbey in Australia.

Abbey Mitchell
Hi, Robin. It’s a pleasure to be here. Yeah, it’s a real honor. We’ve had some incredibly informative podcasts, guests, that I’ve been listening to the past year, at least, I think I’ve been tuning in. And when you reached out, I was like, Whoa, what could come about from talking about a Facebook group?

Robin Daly
Well quite a lot I think. Anyway, people might have guessed from your accent you’re joining us from Australia. Whereabouts are you?

Abbey Mitchell
I’m on the East Coast, halfway between Sydney and Brisbane, a little tiny town called Vala.

Robin Daly
All right.

Abbey Mitchell
Yeah, lovely. And the bush in a bit and simple living.

Robin Daly
Simple living. Sounds good. So for anyone listening who doesn’t already know of you, the reason I invited you onto the show is that you’re the founder of a very lively Facebook group called Healing Cancer Study Support Group. I think you’ve got something like 20,000 people in there, is that right? Yeah. A lot of people.

Abbey Mitchell
I think we’re just about 20,000 people, yeah.

Robin Daly
So my first question has to be why you set the group up in the first place and what is focus is.

Abbey Mitchell
Oh, yeah, well, I had secondary breast cancer diagnosis myself in 2017. And it was a bit of a wake up. Indeed. And I mean, started the group in I think either late 2018 or early 2019. Help me understand Jane McClellan’s book. I had no idea that it was going to end up like this. I really thought I might get 12 people to help me break apart the book and, you know, help us you know, maybe we could all take on a piece each and and then share with each other what we learn. Interesting. It was very, it was very innocent. And it was based on some other groups. I’d been on learning different things online. And I thought, Oh, yeah, these online groups, they’re helpful. You know, we can draw our resources from each other and help each other. And I didn’t feel safe in the other Facebook groups that were out there actually like emotionally safe because I was out of my debt. You know, learning about cell signaling and metabolic and all this kind of stuff just I felt like there was a lot of lot of people that weren’t communicating comfortably that people like myself were just in their listening probably too scared to ask questions in some of the groups. Because yeah, it was just there was some there was some know it alls out there.

Robin Daly
All right, so you wanted to create your own environment that you felt was a good place to discuss. Makes complete sense.

Abbey Mitchell
Yeah, it was never going to be 20,000 people.

Robin Daly
Look what happens. Interesting. So for anybody who doesn’t know, Jane McLellan’s book, How the Style of Cancer is all about the use of various repurposed drugs and natural products to actually block the metabolic pathways of cancer. And as you say, it’s not simple stuff. It takes a lot to actually get the measure of all that. If you’re trying to deal with your own situation and you want to be serious about it. So anyway, I didn’t realize that’s why you started. That’s very interesting.

Abbey Mitchell
Yeah, we quickly got to about 5000 members in the first maybe eight months, six months or something. Wow. It was very lively. There was a lot of people wanting to understand that book. The title of the group at the time was actually called something like that, How to Starve Cancer Study for Board Group or something like that, you know, because there wasn’t really that type of discussion going on in Jane’s group at the time. She was doing one-on-one calls, but she wasn’t really answering a lot of questions that everybody had. And we had pretty basic questions, you know, like she didn’t have time to really go through that kind of stuff with us. So we were just taking like each of the compounds or the off-label drugs and I’d create a like a I’d call them a thread conversation thread and I’d anchor it with an image so we could come back to it using a Facebook URL and we could just sort of organize and create some order around what each of us was bringing and the questions we were asking. And I think that that was the success of the group, the order. We created some order for the first time in Facebook. And then I created an external website that reflected that need for order and that ease. So when a cancer patient’s looking for information, there’s usually this real urgency. And yeah, as a group admin, you don’t want to be repeating yourself time and time and time again. And yeah, so I think that was helpful. And the fact that we were looking at all the all the topics that were coming up in Jane’s book and nine out of ten that we’d never really heard of before. So we’re all interested in learning. So when we’re about the five thousand size, it was a very dynamic group. And about that time, Jane said that she did not want us using this other group to be discussing her book. She wanted it only discussed in her group. And so we changed the name of the group. And by that point, we were starting to expand our interest anyway. More we learned.

Robin Daly
Yeah. Yeah. That’s where you started from. Yeah. Yeah. How interesting. Well, the thing you brought there, and you brought it because of your own experiences, this is why it’s so valuable to have people who have their own experience of cancer involved in looking for solutions, if you like, is that you brought in this need for order, which of course, yeah, Facebook’s not the best place for order, is it? But it tends to be a bit of a wild west. But that’s a very important aspect to have brought into it, and it’s for you to have seen the need for it. And so I’m sure you were definitely answering a need that was you’d find yourself. Yeah. So you’ve told us that you come from your own background of your own health care issues. As of interest, do you want to share your own story a little bit of what occurred to you and where you got to?

Abbey Mitchell
So I had lobular breast cancer anemosectomy in 2014 and I didn’t see an oncologist. I saw a surgeon and he was able to send me back for MRIs every six months and they often led to biopsies. I had very dense breast tissue and then scan, yeah the MRIs, biopsies, scans and then yeah so about three years after that it came back through my bones and I did go and see an oncologist and I had some radiation on my spine and I took hormone blocker for about two months but right at the very beginning I did some five weeks of IV vitamin C just after the radiation. I refused the chemotherapy because interesting like so many of your guests say you know like it’s not great for the immune system and I knew nothing but I was still able to know just through knowing myself and say to my oncologist look I may look healthy but if my body’s riddled with cancer then I know my immune system is not in good enough shape to take chemotherapy as well you know like give me some time let’s see if this hormone therapy works and I didn’t take all the hormone therapy that was on offer but I felt like I took enough in taking vasologics and IV vitamin C I went strict keto I did a lot of mind body work because I think for me it was like having the finger pointed at me being told I was stage four and making that palate the word palate it totally freaked me out.

Robin Daly
right. It’s not supposed to be a freaky wording. It’s changed its meaning. It’s supposed to mean just sort of even looking after you well, really. It now means you’re on your way out.

Abbey Mitchell
Yeah, I know. I mean, anyway, so that was 2017 2018. By the end of 2018. I knew that I was definitely healing and I was saying no to what they’re offering. Saying not right now. Look, if it’s if things don’t keep heading in this really good direction, I’ll say yes, but I hadn’t seen I hadn’t come across anybody that had healed breast cancer to the bones until probably very, very late in 2018. And I was looking and it was an immunotherapy trial that made papers and that made a huge difference to my mindset to know that bones could heal, you know, like, and I just think people are so different today. It’s only what five years later, but you people have people popping into the Facebook glowing. I need the protocol or I need the Metro map for blah, blah, blah, hit me with the girls and I was just like, Oh, this crap, you know, like five years ago, like I didn’t even know any healing.

Robin Daly
Well, when you’ve been in it for a while, that’s what happens. Yeah, things change and the things that were so pioneering and took so much effort and so much to create, I just don’t want to take for granted. But of course, you know, and it’s actually a good thing, of course. But it’s a little bit cool.

Abbey Mitchell
Yeah. And it’s not universal. We lose a lot. We lose a lot of wonderful people to cancer still with what they need straightforward breast cancers. And there’s nothing straightforward about cancer at all, especially once it is stage four. And there’s a few treatments under the belt. And yeah, better than sad.

Robin Daly
There’s never something to be complacent about, is there?

Abbey Mitchell
No.

Robin Daly
No. All right. So the group’s coming up for its fifth anniversary now then. And within the scope of its lifetime, it’s encapsulated the entire pandemic. And, you know, the pandemic itself completely changed healthcare as much as kind of reliance on mainstream oncology was impossible. Millions of people, again, are locked away in their homes with almost no prospect of treatment or even anyone to talk to. And this is where kind of the internet leapt in and played a massive part. And groups such as yours became a place where people made connections, they got information, shared ideas. It was really a great time for that. I’m just interested, what is your experience of the role and activity of the group during the pandemic?

Abbey Mitchell
hearing you say that, I didn’t actually pick up on it being any different during the pandemic, really. Other than that, it was a sad time, I think, in the group, because a lot of peoples that were really desperate, needed treatment, weren’t able to travel to the clinics that they were traveling to, to get their treatment, even if it was just across state in America and stuff. It was just awful in that regard, it was sad, and it had a really big impact on many families and people. But as far as the group, no, I didn’t really see anything that I really recall changing as far as, I mean, I myself had to step back during that time, I think it was 2020, I tried to step away from the group because I had a burnout. I think I went in a bit too fast into the Facebook space, not understanding the power of the Facebook algorithm and how it sucks you in, and the amount of responding to people, it was like, you know, somebody, I’m very compassionate person and very caring, and you know, had no idea what I was in for. I had a lot of energy that I built up to my own hearing and my own practices, but when he was looking after myself and I was managing to complete them after I knew or two in the group space, we had some family stuff happening too with my mother-in-law who lives with us with her dementia, and yeah, we ended up taking some time in the family just for everybody to step back and look after themselves, so there wasn’t going to be another kind of relapse or anything like that. But the group, I think what did happen around that time was Linda, with her Always Hope support group, she started getting a much stronger following, and Mark’s group, the Patient Lead Oncology Trials group, like they took different focuses so that my group didn’t do everything, you know?

Robin Daly
Interesting, yeah, specialization arising. Yeah, yeah.

Abbey Mitchell
Um, and it was a bit sad since I’d saw less of some people that sort of went to Mark’s group and new people were coming to my group and then, um, yeah, like where my group used to be a bit more like an ER waiting room. I think a lot of those people went over to Linda’s group for the, for the protocol support and I don’t really know what’s going on in Jane’s group. I don’t actually, um, I don’t go to Jane’s group, but yeah, I think we’ve all sort of got our little specialty nation way. And I think now, and during COVID, um, each of the groups got stronger. So we’re able to sort of spread that out between us. And Kurt’s group, Kurt, Kurt, Greg and Michael’s got a fantastic group and a lot of people are going there for support and protocol support as well.

Robin Daly
Yeah, there’s quite a few on that. Yeah, interesting. I mean, you know, our experience of COVID here was very much that our message about wellbeing and the ability to contribute significantly to your own health care changed. You know, well, it got to far more people. We went from being rank outsiders to being really quite sensible stuff. Well, of course, yeah, lifestyle, you know, it’s obvious, you know, we, it was quite shocking really how quickly it moved and from this feeling of being, yeah, fringe to being a very straightforward message of taking your own health care into your own hands that makes complete sense. And so obviously, we’re very pleased with that. We were being talked to by a lot more people were in line for being supported by a lot more people as well as a result of that. So it was a good change from a very difficult time for sure. But the result at the other end has some benefits. So you’re saying how this kind of specialization, if you like, started to occur within the groups as more and more of them evolved. What would you say is the unique feature of yours now? Why do people want to come to your group in particular?

Abbey Mitchell
Um, I would say that if they’re wanting to kind of, um, dig into something, like they can dig into a thread on one particular compound or one type of treatment, um, and they can find, yeah, they can find, um, that we sort of have now, I guess in those four years at least of accessible, um, conversation and share loads and research just kind of contained. Whereas you might go into, um, another group and find that, um, yeah, you can’t really, um, get that much information other than just the latest posts that Facebook wants to show you, you know, and then that’s getting harder too. Yeah. So, um, actually Marie’s group, her, her team group and Lacey’s breast cancer group, they’re quite well organized with their files and resources, um, as well. But yeah, I think it’s that organization, um, and the wide range of different file types that we’ve got that people couldn’t dig into. Um, also it’s very nonjudgmental. I mean, that’s that safe space that I wanted to create, you know, that there’s a lot of, um, healthy minded, uh, healing groups out there on Facebook, but they, you know, they seem to, um, yeah, judge people that are choosing, um, chemotherapy or, um, you know, standard care treatments and things. And I just feel like we don’t all have that much choice and often come to these groups after we’ve made decisions that, um, we didn’t realize we had choice in, um, you know, we all come to this at a different, different point in time. Um, so I’m guessing.

Robin Daly
you have to work quite hard actually to preserve that environment of where it’s a safe space in that way because of course social media attracts all sorts of very black on my views.

Abbey Mitchell
My moderators are angels. They’re incredible. That was kind of one of the really amazing things about when I stood back in 2020 and I asked for support. Yeah, I’ve got one fellow Australian in particular, Kathy Eakins, just incredible. She loves the job of moderating and swatting out all the, they’re the spammers and things. And I’m just glad that she enjoys that. That’s not my idea of fun. So yeah, there’s people that get across these groups and look after the groups, a lot of caretakers a month.

Robin Daly
It’s important. It’s really important because the internet is such a public space and it actually attracts people with extreme views. It’s a good place for them to do their stuff. Okay, so just say somebody’s going to join your group today, how would you advise them as the best way to interact with a group to get the most from it?

Abbey Mitchell
I would say probably go to my website that I’ve set up with the A to Z directory of threads and files. Um, so it’s my healing community.com. And then, um, from the menu, you’ll see the A to Z directory threads and files and bookmark that. Because as you’re going through the different groups, as you, as you, as you’re going through the posts in our group or generally looking through the internet to learn, bounce back to that A to Z page. And if you’re a member of the group, the links, each of the items on that page will take you into the Facebook group where you can start interacting and learning more about that topic that you’re interested in. Um, they use it, yeah, I guess use it as a, um, a bit of a library in that sense. Um, and you’ll find, you know, maybe a conversation thread about the particular council you’ve been diagnosed with, you can get in there and you might start recognising names from other groups and people and, you know, just starting to feel a bit, you know, like you’re part of a community. Um, which is actually one of the things that really interesting too, you know, like as bad as Facebook is and annoying and this in so many ways.

Abbey Mitchell
incredible how much of a community it’s become you know even though it’s just names so often you’ve just got a little image and a name but year after year and day after day along the way you know where we are right we love each other we um you know um and we miss the people that are no longer here and we were remember them and yeah just i guess get in i’d advise people to get in and um not be afraid to comment and make a mistake there’s so many kind people in the group um i’d say to anything to maybe be careful and check yourself is that you know um if you’ve heard something you know be be aware that you want to communicate that in a way like knitting and you’ve got you know maybe a fear-based question you know try not to freak everybody out you know like say where you heard it you know like i heard this in another group is it true um don’t go just parroting things in here and and people in our group there’s enough and i’d say they’re sort of like aunties and uncles in the group you know they’re not all missionaries or experts but they’ve been doing it like i have been for long enough to know that when we read something that doesn’t smell right we won’t come down hard on you we’ll just we’ll just go and see if we can set you straight maybe with a link or something that you can read sort of bring you up to date or send you in the right direction you know it is a very it’s a very warm place to learn but it’s about learning and um i’m i’m the one that looks at every post for approval every morning i wake up and i and i have my cup i sit there and so yeah um it’s got to get past me before it gets posted so you if you don’t see your post up look out for a message from me you know explaining why or or where i’ve sent you to to get the answer to your question without it having to go through and everybody read the same question that maybe you’ve been asked right yeah so you’re keeping the site

Robin Daly
relevant and useful. Amazing. Thanks for the point you made about the sort of double-edged sword of the social media. You know, you’re right. Of course, it has all these downsides, which everybody knows about, and it’s addictive nature and all that stuff. But you’re so right that one of the big features of cancer is the isolating nature of it. And get yourself with a sort of rare cancer that they don’t even really have any treatments for, and it’s magnified even more. So to begin to connect with other people in this way can be hugely valuable for people. And they can, as you say, they can start to feel a part of a community in which everybody’s looking out for everybody else. And that’s such a big thing for overall well-being.

Abbey Mitchell
Well, it is and and and it’s like a king that you’d like. It’s just sort of warm glow that sort of grows, you know, it is really beautiful. And so actually, the breast cancer community has just recently got a new online group using circle radiant healing together. Amy Robinson bellows. So she’s on my healing community page or find links to groups anyone with breast cancer that’s interested in lots of live meetups on all sorts of different topics, heat to relaxation, and caring and connecting and creativity and as well as lots of great talks from experts in different areas and breast cancer. Yeah, so there’s a bit of a move away from Facebook in the breast cancer community. Maria is taking her her to group to circle as well. Yeah, Facebook, a little bit. The censoring information that just taken another group Linda’s always hope group offline. The last week, she was hoping to be back online today. But she’s now setting up a new group as we speak, because she didn’t get

Robin Daly
Amazing. Yeah. I mean, you’ve just got basically, you’ve got a computer surveilling, you know, what you’re doing and finding reasons to cut that.

Abbey Mitchell
Yeah, it’s fun.

Robin Daly
very it’s a very precarious situation to be in really with so much valuable connection between people and so much valuable information so it’s completely understandable this time people want to go and look for somewhere better yeah well things have changed during the lifetime of these groups of course I mean a lot of this surveillance and stuff wasn’t going on the censorship wasn’t going on five years ago so yeah it’s a it’s a changing situation why um you already sort of mentioned a kind of tolerance if you like that you apply to people’s choices and what they’re in attitudes and so I’m just interested to hear about your own thoughts on integration the parallel use of conventional therapies and other approaches how you think conventional medicine plays into people’s journey how you think the other approaches playing you know just just interested to hear a bit about it

Abbey Mitchell
Well, probably say mostly from talking to women with breast cancer, which I did a lot in that first year setting up the group, I was on calls pretty much every night with fellow breast cancer people. And I think that we’re lucky in that regard, like some of the targeted therapies, you know, people are getting a longer, longer breath, their breathing space, you know, between resistance. So it’s very different than a lot of other cancers. At the other end of the scales, there’s the pancreatic cancer, you know, where things move very quickly. But generally speaking, I think that the conversations that you’re having in the UK, I wish we were having here Robin in Australia, because they’re very similar to the UK, very, very different in the US with all the reasons they have there. And the quality of integrative care that they can, not everybody can access and force it. It’s pretty shocking.

Abbey Mitchell
But I think in Australia, we don’t have, we’re just starting to see a few tiny little signs that there’s support here. If you need IV therapies, you need a doctor that understands the pathways, but very, very few and far between. And again, not affordable, you know, not something that you get on insurance or Medicare, which is our government, you know, basic coverage. It’s really, I had to take it into my own hands. I was lucky that I found a GP that at the time would offer me IV vitamin C. But even then, you know, we found some loopholes to make it cheaper for me. And I was gifted the actual IV vitamin C from a friend whose father had passed. And it was left over and her mother was a nurse or worked in. So yeah, things kind of came to me, because in a really, yeah, amazing way that I just see some and New Zealand’s the same. I mean, it’s just too expensive, basically, to imagine doing a lot of the stuff we talk about in the groups. And we have to take it into our hands. And I guess go for that health span, you know, like how long can we be healthy with Mr. V, you know, I think that’s the attitude that I’m taking is the longer I’ve been in this space and continually enjoyed learning, I can about the different approaches and systems and stuff. And mostly, though, it’s not about what’s happening in these unaffordable clinics, it’s about what we can do with natural compounds and, and how, how they affect the body’s ability that the immune system and mostly around, I guess, yeah, inflammation and the immune system, functioning, sleeping well, good routines, exercise, breathing, relaxation. Yeah, quality of life. And yeah, the health span. I just, I don’t even know why I’m surprised, but I’m in my early fifties now. And I feel like every time I see one of my girlfriends of my age, they’re telling me that their parents are dying of cancer, you know, like, so people in their 17, this is just how people die of cancer, it seems. Yeah, it’s just how it is. And I think well, we’re all dying. And I just, I guess, I don’t want to be dying in the hospital, I don’t want to be going in and out of treatment, you know, so I don’t know. I mean, I’ve been watching beautiful people come through this space and move on out of their bodies. And yeah, I think, if that happens to me, you know, if, if it does, yeah, I don’t want to do it for the chemicals and in a hospital setting, you know, I just want to do it. No, I’ll be dead. Yeah, yeah.

Robin Daly
Interesting. So you don’t feel it’s a good place for your last stages to sort of medicalise death and I think a lot of people feel that way. But nonetheless, do you feel that the conventional treatments have got a place earlier on in securing people’s way forward?

Abbey Mitchell
If it’s chemotherapy, no. No, I think therapy’s a huge mistake early on. I think maybe, you know, if you’ve got a really large tumor burden, you know, later on or something, perhaps low dose or, you know, integrative chemotherapy, yeah. But no, I think early on the damage it does to a person’s immune system, not every person. I mean, I’ve seen people, yeah, definitely. Grease through chemo and go on to have a lot of life. But I think see too many people that I feel like it takes away chances while they’re on. Yeah, and the stem cells that, you know, being more aggressive and I mean, I just, I think it’s a huge mistake in my therapy. I think the way it’s delivered in Australia anyway, where we don’t have a choice in having lower doses. No, same here. And you, I mean, unless you get a passionate team and they can do something a bit sort of quietly with you when you are stage four and fall into treatment, you know. Yeah.

Abbey Mitchell
Yeah, I’m not a big fan of chemotherapy, but at the same time, not everybody is in a situation where they can say no to chemotherapy. No, like, it’s all that you have got on offer.

Robin Daly
That’s true. It’s as much of a choice as you’ve got. No, I’ve got it. And how about surgery, radiotherapy, immunotherapy?

Abbey Mitchell
Um, surgery, I did in 2014 and I gave myself three months before I did it because the first surgeon would only do it if I had chemotherapy afterwards. He was just so thoughtful about the whole thing and be driven that I, um, I waited and I came across another surgeon who wasn’t at all keen to do anything. It was completely up to me what I wanted. He was so lovely and, and yeah, I think for me, it, um, I wasn’t ready to look at cancer fully at that time at 43. I thought that, you know, if I just have my breast removed, life will go on and I’ll be fine. I didn’t really

Robin Daly
I think a lot of people think that.

Abbey Mitchell
Yeah, I cut it out. So that’s the downside with it, I guess. But the truth was, I wasn’t ready. I wasn’t ready to be doing what I’m doing now. Like, so now cancer is a big part of my life, you know, like, it takes a certain amount of your brain space up constantly. Yes, yes, I was, you know, it’s going to be changing in my life. And I didn’t, yeah, I wasn’t, I wasn’t even on Facebook. I didn’t have a doctor. I wasn’t on Facebook. Yeah.

Robin Daly
So it sounds like you’re saying that there is a place for all these things for different people at different times.

Abbey Mitchell
Yeah, absolutely. And I did choose my radiation therapy out of fear. I sat there and I remember thinking that if I don’t do this, I could end up in a wheelchair. I mean, I don’t want to live in a wheelchair. Some reason this was gonna stop my spine from breaking in half because I had no idea. And so yeah, I did it out of fear. But then funny enough, looking back, as I got to, you know, read and learn more, I’m now wondering whether I actually had a, my hearing response was to the radiation therapy, you know, given what I’m doing, anything at the time, that maybe it was the absolutal effect that happened to me and I had a systemic response.

Robin Daly
Right. Yeah, that’s an interesting thing. It’s not spoken about very much, that effect, but it’s a reality and it can have a lot of effects. So yeah, you never know, do you?

Abbey Mitchell
my femurs because they were sort of across my chest on my ribs. Yeah, you can feel some of them and they were they were just dissolving quite quickly. Fun. Fun. Upward. Amazing. Yes.

Robin Daly
Okay, so the group’s a place for people to learn about cancer and the ways they can help themselves but I wonder what you’ve learned about cancer through running the group. I mean, have any of your views or understandings changed radically through the experience of being involved with the group?

Abbey Mitchell
Oh my God. Yeah. Absolutely. I knew nothing. I started a group because I was admitting that I knew nothing and I wanted a safe space to start learning, you know, like, um, even Jane’s group at the time, like I was saying to her, like, like, we, we, but kindergarten kids over here, we just want to know what Kirkman and we want to know what a statin is, you know, like we don’t know what, what, you know, so I have learned so much, so much. I like, I read the how to stop cancer and was looking at that Metro map and then I had a call with Jane and the takeaway from that call was you need to go back. You need to go back and the cell signaling, you got to look at your phenotype, you know, and go and do your homework though. So it was sort of like, that’s what we did. We’re okay. So Maria and I, um, started working together on something called the breast cancer pathways project and we just dug around in PubMed day and night and then put all this information into Google sheets. Um, so other people could access it and, and look at these sheets and, and put in what they were taking from these, you know, 42, most of us who take, you know, about 42 different tablets a day or, you know, natural and off labels and stuff and, and see, they had to see the effect that was having, um, on all these hallmarks of cancer. So yeah, the breast cancer pathways project and the good year where I was just day and night, Maria doing that. Um, yeah, well, I guess, and the biggest takeaway from that for me was that personally, I’m just not someone interested really in doing off labels or, or any drug. Like I came off my zolidics after two years and my said, well, it worked. So we’ll put you back on it when the cancer comes back. She really thought it would come back. Um, and I’ve been off it now longer than I was on it and I’ve been taking melatonin. So melatonin was a huge learning thing for me, like the amount of former melatonin take care of for a woman with breast cancer, especially, and, and Kirkman’s always been something I’ve taken since day one, um, which I took the inflammation because of the overnight menopause that the oncology drug put me into. Um, but yeah, things like curcumin, chlorosetin, boswellia, uh, melatonin, um, now many pathways that gets upregulated in cancer that these compounds can inhibit and modulate, um, for the immune system. Yeah. Just all along the way, whether you’re getting treatment or out of treatment, I just find it absolutely. Um, I think it’s such a joy to learn that nature has provided, you know, and then today’s technology and, and this technology that’s been brought forward from people in this community who have been brought into this space, like all of us here, like, wow, with his cancer scary cancer, Linda’s husband dying of cancer,

Abbey Mitchell
Daniel’s wife dying of cancer, our parents and all these people, we’re all here because we’ve been called to this throughout experiences and, and to know that what we have here, um, right now, like the technology that Daniel’s bringing with his, with his formulas, with the natural compounds and, um, what I’m doing in this clinic in India, um, yeah, I’ve just learned so much. I’m just so inspired. And now Mark Newton’s work with you, you know, um, and that’s super interesting to me where that’s going to go and learning about the suppression theory, but how that, um, is it the tall like receptors that the, the fungi are, the pathogens are there, they’re turning them on. And then thinking, well, I’m turning it all up that my purpose men and my perspectives and I’m turning off like, yeah, it’s just like, but I’m kind of lucky. I think my brain is finds it all really stimulating and interesting.

Abbey Mitchell
Dr. McKinney’s, his new book, I’m supposed to be studying, actually starting to be a life coach at the moment. And all I can do is read his book. Every time I open up my computer, I should be doing something else but I’m just fascinating with the way different people like Mark, the way Mark Linton expresses his learning about everything that was going on in the last sort of three, four years. And his voice coming in and telling that story with you, it’s beautiful. Like so many people I know that have listened to that podcast say to me, wow, you know, this is, it’s sort of like a, it’s like a reflection or a summary of what we’ve all been learning over the last three or four years. And Mark’s just able to communicate that so beautifully and then add this whole new

Robin Daly
dimension. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. An astonishing piece of work is down there and a great contribution.

Abbey Mitchell
Yeah. And he’s taken it and he’s made me and everybody, we mean, we’ve, we’ve looked at for a long time, you know, we’ve been looking at parasites and bumpy and stuff like that. But I guess just giving the way he’s able to ask that question, like we got a spar with James work and was sort of like, well, don’t just look at the Metro map and the metabolic, go back to the cell signaling. And then we just say, well, cancer makes me stop regulating. But Mark’s like, well, why does cancer operate? You know, like what, what is going on? What is cancer? And the way national winter is set, it’s not cancer, it’s cancer ring, you know, it’s a process, you know, and it’s like, right now, what’s going on? Yeah. Yeah. The whole ecosystem at all is just, I feel like I’m just at the beginning of learning all the time, always just at the beginning.

Robin Daly
Right well is that interest of yours I think is clearly the spark that makes your group run that’s what the people are tapping into if you like because that knowledge is power I mean it’s you know it moves people from being victims of cancer to being proactive and feeling like they have some direction which is like life or death you know it’s enormously important to human beings to have that so very inspiring for people a great job you’re doing there. Do you want to say one thing you’re most proud of with your group?

Abbey Mitchell
all the beautiful people that I just feel, yeah, just fortunate enough to, to be a part of, you know, in the group for us to be there together in the group. I just, just such a beautiful range of different minds and, and humble, humble people. And yeah, just, yeah, I think that’s it. It’s just a very, yeah, it’s an ecosystem of, yeah, all people from all around the world. And yeah, I think that’s what makes it special, open-minded.

Robin Daly
you’ve created the space to make that possible, which is a great thing. So look, we’re out of time. And thanks so much for coming on the show today, Abby. It’s so nice to chat to you and hearing all about your work with the Healing Cancer Studies support group. I want to take this opportunity to thank you for hosting the information about the Yes To Life show, sharing it with your members every week. That’s great for us on the other side of the planet here. I’m always speaking to so many great people like yourself, and I think it’s an extraordinarily valuable thing that we do to share that information. So I really appreciate you sharing it with your members.

Abbey Mitchell
No, absolute pleasure. I think you’re the only person that’s got the green light. Like I said, I have to approve everyone. Marnie, except yours, Robin, you can post anytime, anything.

Robin Daly
Online groups are a fantastic resource for information and for connecting. If you’ve never tried one well why not take a look and see if you can find one that hits the spot for you. Maybe Healing Cancer Studies Support Group is where you’ll find your tribe. Thanks so much for listening today I’ll be back at the same time at the same places next week with another Yes To Life show so I hope you can join me again.