Transcript Disclaimer – Please note that the following transcript has been machine generated by an AI software and therefore may include errors or omissions.

Robin Daly
Hello and welcome to the Yes To Life show on UK Health Radio. I’m Robin Daly, host for the show and also founder of Yes To Life, the UK charity that’s celebrating 20 years of supporting the introduction of integrative medicine into cancer care in the UK. We are passionate about improving the loss of those with cancer who we feel suffer from massive gaps in care since a diagnosis of cancer has effects on an individual that go way beyond the physical manifestation of the disease, often affecting every aspect of their life. Today, I shall be speaking to three people who are also passionate about driving forward the approach to both treatment and rehabilitation, initially in one specific group of patients, men with prostate cancer. This follows on nicely from last week’s show entitled The Post-Treatment Blues, which was focused in some of the same territory but more targeted towards women with breast cancer. Brian Lynch has been engaged in advocating for precise diagnosis and targeting of prostate cancer for over a decade alongside Claire Del Mar. Through the Focal Therapy Clinic, they offer precision therapies for prostate cancer and their experience in working extensively with men has led them to develop a comprehensive programme for rehabilitating men following treatment with Dr Marie Edison, a urology surgeon. I’m speaking to Brian Lynch, Claire Del Mar and Dr Marie Edison today about the treatment offered at the Focal Therapy Clinic and the new programme they’ve developed together.

Robin Daly
Hi Claire, Brian and Marie, very pleased to have you on the show today. I think we have our mutual friend Chris Lewis to thank for introducing us and just as he predicted, I’m very pleased to be introduced and to find out more about your initiatives to improve the lot of men with prostate cancer. So welcome to the show. broadly today, there’s a couple of subjects that I want to cover. Firstly, there are the therapies that you offer at the Focal Therapy Clinic just west of London and secondly, following on from last week’s show, which is titled The Post Treatment Blues, I want to hear about your initiative to help men with the many issues that face them in readjusting to life after diagnosis and treatment. Yeah, last week’s show primarily focused on women, although of course, lots of the same issues. Anyway, so let’s start off with the simple stuff. An explanation of the name of your clinic. Why do you call it the Focal Therapy Clinic?

Brian Lynch
The Focal Therapy Clinic is fundamentally a clinic that was set up on the basis of a range of doctors being very frustrated that work they’d done for a decade in precision diagnostics, followed up by what they called minimally invasive treatment, trying to treat just a piece of the prostate land that was damaged, was being ignored. They’d gone out, they’d done clinical trials, they’d achieved a lot of very good success, internationally recognized success for trials they’d done on this treatment, and they were not finding it being accepted.

Brian Lynch
I was at a meeting which I’d sponsored with these doctors to try and talk about this subject, and the answer was we just are frustrated, we can’t get going. And they said, well, would they ask me at that state, would I be willing to begin a business where we’d begin to go directly to the public to offer the treatment they called it Focal Therapy, so we said, let’s just call it the Focal Therapy Clinic. So it is what it says. And Focal Therapy is fundamentally, I’ll go for you, start with precision diagnostics. You very clearly define the area that is diseased within the prostate, and you focus your treatment on that area, and you avoid treating the rest of the prostate. The benefit of that is that it avoids the problems that are inevitable with larger treatments like prostatectomy or radiotherapy, including incontinence, including erectile dysfunction, and including just a very traumatic treatment. I mean, if you have a prostatectomy or radiotherapy, it’s quite a trauma. If you have focal therapy or this type of therapy, it’s a three hour treatment. And most men, I mean, we’ve had men back playing ice hockey literally three days after treatment. But for most, it’s about two weeks back afterwards. They’ve almost forgotten about the treatment, literally. They obviously have to watch their PSA for the rest of the year to make sure it’s worked there is a follow-up a year later, but for most men. It’s a very once it’s done.

Robin Daly
that’s brilliant So I’m definitely gonna want to get into the nitty-gritty a bit about the detail of the treatments themselves Yeah, but before we get on to that, I just interested here from all of you briefly Well, why are you doing all this? you said a bit of it already about why you said at your clinic. But I’m talking to three of you here. You’ve all got your different motivations for being here doing this. I’d love to hear

Clare Delmar
So, I mean, I would say when we’ve been involved in this business and treating these patients, which is now in the several hundreds, I spent a lot of my time as a patient advocate and working with both campaigners and other influencers in the cancer and prostate cancer world. I began to notice some patterns. one of them was this primary point we’re all discussing, which is a lot of men don’t get the support they need. And this becomes very apparent when they finish treatment because they’re kind of considered done, yet they’ve had this massive impact to their mental and physical health and more specifically their sexual and urinary health. But secondly, I began to sort of see two other things. One, to do focal therapy, as Brian said, requires a very intense set of reviews, a multidisciplinary team review. You don’t just sort of set a target and blast it with energy. You actually have to discuss this and understand the details. So we actually, by definition, take a very holistic view of a patient’s and we got to know them better. And that meant more than just their PSA score, what their images looked like. It meant their lifestyle, what they did. And so I took a real interest in how these people had some similarities in their day-to-day lifestyle activities. And then I guess the final point was a lot of our patients are older because, of course, prostate cancer is a disease of aging. I kind of began to feel that they were almost discriminated against in their age on a whole bunch of levels, which we can dig into. But that was really what brought me to sort of think more about how we can help them better and more holistically and ultimately more effectively.

Robin Daly
Thanks, and Dr Marie, what angle have you come to this from?

Dr Marie Edison
Hi Robin. So I work as a urology surgeon in London and I’m a committee member for an international research organisation. I’ve been interested in this both from a precision medicine point of view and also because I think there’s a lot of emphasis on the diagnosis and the treatment of cancer but there’s less options for coming towards the end of treatment and how to get back to health and wellbeing. Whilst my clinical work is fulfilling I think there are broader and very impactful ways that we can help patients that go beyond the surgical setting. I met Brian here about a year ago and I’m here today to talk about a new clinic we are setting up for survivors of prostate cancer but more on that later I think.

Robin Daly
Okay. All right. That’s great. And so maybe we’ll get back to the treatments now. I’d love to have a bit of a survey, an overview of the territory here because focal therapy, well there’s quite a lot of them these days, aren’t there? A lot of them sound quite similar. You’ve got nano knife, cyber knife, gamma knife, all these things going on. I quite like to hear about the territory as a whole and how it’s developed and why you’ve selected those two particular therapies that you use out of that whole panoply.

Brian Lynch
The development of focal therapy for prostate cancer has largely been a result of the development of and the innovation that the UK actually led on in the implementation and use of MRI for the detection of prostate cancer within the prostate gland. actually, if you look at the textbooks that were being written until about 2010, 2015, they actually would say that you cannot detect within the prostate gland which area is cancerous and which is not. It was believed to be impossible, but the MRI and particularly the development of MPMRI significantly changed that. That was very much led by a team at University College London led by Dr. Claire Allen who worked with us at the focal therapy clinic. They conducted a major trial called the PROMISE trial which was the trial that really established the value of MPMRI for the texture of prostate cancer on a global basis, not just the UK. in about 2011, the UK began to move and has moved now that most men in the UK will receive an MRI after initially considered PSA or some other symptom that may be symptomatic of prostate cancer. But the benefit, if you have good diagnostic, you can then say, we know what part of the prostate has cancer and which does not. the logic came, if we can tell which part is cancerous or which does not, why not just treat the part that’s cancerous and leave the rest alone? And this is very analogous to the development of breast cancer in the 80s when lumpectomy came and the ability to detect the area of cancer within the breast was proven and the ability to say we can do a lumpectomy versus a mastectomy. Well, focal therapy is effectively a lumpectomy for men. Lows men to have their cancerous region in the prostate gland treated and leave the rest alone. And the reason there are two, the reason Haifu was chosen was simply Haifu was the technology that was preferred as an ablation technique by the early hospitals working on focal therapy. there is now almost 20 years of experience of using Haifu for focal therapy and increasingly better and better results are being achieved with that. However, one of the areas that Haifu has difficulty is there’s about 20% between 20 and 30% depending on who you listen to, of the prostate cancers that occur in the interior or front of the prostate gland and they’re often beyond two centimeters, maybe three centimeters away from where the probe will be in the rectum. While it’s possible to treat with Haifu, the recurrence rate in that area is relatively high. So there was a long-term view that they needed no alternative treatment and the first one they used was cryotherapy, which means you could put some needles in, put some nitrogen and freeze that piece of the prostate. That works. However, it’s quite hard to control it as precisely as one would like. So you get a little bit of overtreatment, although I do want to emphasize that cryotherapy is an effective treatment. It is awkward to use in theater. It is a little difficult to control and therefore has developed but never really been adopted at a very large scale. For the last decade, there’s been a technique called irreversible electroporation, which is a technique using electrical current to kill tissue. And that’s extensively used in the kidney. It’s used in the pancreas to treat cancers and has been in the liver for quite a long time, at least a decade, maybe 10 to 15 years. About five or six years ago, some of the leading doctors began losing this technology in the prostate gland. And they’ve been, they’ve been achieving very good results and very high level of effectiveness and precision by which they could control the, the current. also the fact that the ablate, the damage around the treatment area was very confined so you can get a very neat and easy to control treatment. And they began using that. Maybe the initial place was in Australia, but then also professor Emberton and UK was using it. we looked at that and as we were doing at the focal therapy clinic, quite a lot of IFAW, we said we wanted a second treatment and the treatment we selected was nanonife and that’s why we use nanonife and IFAW. We, occasionally our doctors will use cryotherapy for patients who may have had a pacemaker, for example, because if you have a pacemaker, you don’t like to use nanonife because it’s actually current. sometimes if you’ve got a very large lesion in the front of the prostate, we need to cut out maybe 30, 40% of the prostate gland, they will use cryotherapy because it’s just more suitable in those cases, but the majority of the patients we work with, the decision on the treatment modality is all about the geography, literally the geography of the lesion. If it’s close to the rectum, you use high fu. If it’s far away from the rectum, you try and use either nanonife, usually nanonife, but sometimes cryotherapy. So it’s not, but from a patient’s perspective, the really, really important point is that we’re treating, using a treatment modality that allows the patient to get a treatment that will ablate their cancer as effectively as possible. the actual side effects for most patients are very similar. Very, the most of them, they come in, they have a couple of hours in the refrigerator, they wake up, they literally walk home, and if they’ve got cryotherapy or nanonife, they may have an extra day with the catheter.

Brian Lynch
So maybe high food might be three days, nanonife might be four days, but no more difference than that. And the results at one year are that something like 90% of patients have no clinically significant disease detectable. That, so it’s not a hundred percent. It is some people who need more, that there will be almost no incontinence. The numbers are something like 3% will have some type of incontinence and that the significant erectile dysfunction rate is something below 5%. Exactly the those numbers, different studies have slightly different numbers, but the numbers of the focal therapy clinic will be aligned to those numbers.

Robin Daly
So there’s some very good figures there. Really interesting. Just for the sake of our listeners, there’s a word you use quite a lot, which is not really in common use outside of oncology, which is ablation. Do you want to just explain exactly what you mean? Because all these treatments we talked about, they’re ablative therapies, aren’t they?

Brian Lynch
It’s basically killing cells. So you either use, if you use high food, you’re using heat and you heat up very small pieces of tissue and do piece by piece by piece until you’ve killed the other relevant cells. You can use ice, which is cryotherapy and the exact same way you build the ice ball and kill the cells, or use electrical current whereby you put some needles in a shape and the area between them, all the cells are killed. So you’re basically, ablation is about killing cells on a very focused way.

Dr Marie Edison
Just to add a slight technicality with the nano-nice, the difference is that the current kills or destroys the cell membrane, so that’s how the cell dies, but it means it’s a non-thermal way of killing it, unlike Haisu being heat and then Kuo being cold.

Robin Daly
Interesting. So maybe just a little bit more explanation about Hifu. As you say, it’s been around quite a while now and it’s quite developed. High intensity focus ultrasound is quite a sort of does what it says on the tin thing, but maybe you want to say a little bit about actually what’s going on here because it’s not intuitive to everybody that Hifu would be a heat treatment.

Brian Lynch
When they use ultrasound, you send two waves of sound and it’s a little bit like if you use a magnifying glass in the sunshine to create a bit of focus on a piece of paper. You use two rays of ultrasound and where they meet, they create a heat effect, but it’s only where they meet and where they meet is typically less than a couple of millimeters by two millimeters by five millimeters. So a tiny amount of tissue and it does piece by machine is built in calibrated. So it does piece by piece by piece. So it can take a couple of hours, for example, maybe an hour and a half to treat the relevant area. But when it does heat, it heats it to over 80 degrees Celsius, more than sufficient to kill the cells. when you’re watching, you can see you’re watching a monitor looking at the amount of heat being impacted into the prostate gland or into the particular area. You can see the changes and you just did the software keeps moving it piece by piece by piece to cover the area. We would typically cover any area we do at least two times to make certain you’ve covered the amount of tissue, but it’s very much, it is literally like two strands, two beams of light crossing the same way you imagine, you know, an air raid, you look at an air raid and you see the lights going up and they cross, it’s that point of crossing where the heat is caused. it’s very tight space and literally is millimeters by millimeters is very, very limited. It heats it and then it moves on to the next piece.

Robin Daly
I’d like to take a little bit of a diversion now to talk about something rather different just for a minute. this is a territory that lots of men find themselves hanging around in, which is active surveillance or watch or waiting. Can you tell us what your thoughts are on this? Because it’s quite common these days.

Brian Lynch
It is far better to have no treatment than to have excessive treatment. If you are lucky enough to have your prostate cancer detected when it’s at a very early stage and you are given the option of a radical treatment like radical prostatectomy or hormone therapy and radiotherapy, those are big treatments. They’re necessary when they’re necessary, but they’re big treatments. If you can delay or avoid them, then you avoid the side effects and you can last quite a long time. The benefit of focal therapy is that the impact of treatment is much less. So typically our view would be if the, if the lesion or the area of cancerous tissue is difficult to detect on MRI or is not clearly detectable on MRI, we would argue and regularly do argue to men that it is better to wait to let it progress so that we are absolutely certain the area we’re going to treat will be precisely where it needs to be treated. But if it’s visible on MRI, we will tend to argue that that patient who’s got a visible lesion on MRI should be treated. And that’s actually been corroborated by Professor Caroline Moore at UCLH, who’s been able to show that if a lesion is well defined and visible on MRI, it is likely to progress and therefore it is actually now shown that men on active surveillance with visible lesions, clearly visible lesions, will eventually need treatment. in that case, why not have a focal therapy, which you could have early, as opposed to delay and ending up having to have a radical treatment. But for men whose lesion is indistinct, first of all, there’s a significant number of men, those men where the cancer will not progress significantly. in any case, it is better to delay until it is well defined so that you can then treat an area that will actually ablate the relevant area.

Robin Daly
So you’re proposing kind of moving back the point at which you advise treatment much sooner than would generally be advised in as much as you say as soon as you can detect it, then you’ve got something you can treat.

Dr Marie Edison
I think it’s about patient choice, right? All of this comes back to men having options. I will say that not every prostate cancer is suitable for vocal, but for some it is.

Robin Daly
YBecause there’s an aspect of this we haven’t spoken about yet, which is the psychological aspect of the whole thing, which is this not doing a damn thing, but it’s sort of inactive surveillance in a way, which is a tough call for people. so to have another option on the table here or some more options is definitely a good thing, because I’m sure that many men, given the kind of options you’ve just described, would go for having much earlier treatment in order to just feel, okay, I responded to the situation and I haven’t had to pay a huge price for it.

Dr Marie Edison
No treatment will be risk-free but there are different risk profiles so it’s about what is that that actual individual is happy to accept and it’s about us giving them the right information.

Robin Daly
okay.

Clare Delmar
Yeah, Robin, we get patients calling us sometimes who the most people who come to the clinic are by definition coming for a second opinion. That’s where we get some very refined and some probably possibly unique information over time. And a lot of them will have been on active surveillance and to your point, are struggling with it for a whole range of reasons. It sort of takes two to tango to make active surveillance work. The patient is, the others were saying, need to be accepting of it, which in these cases they may well have been. But the actual institution systems providers of the surveillance may have let down. This became very apparent during lockdown, as you can imagine, with delays and things.

Brian Lynch
I would actually add to that slightly. There’s a big difference if you’re working at places like UCLH and Imperial and the big university hospitals around the country, where there’s a very strong program of active surveillance and active management, and there’s a culture in the hospitals of calling men several times to get them to come back and chasing them up. Other hospitals, which are much less well resourced, you’ll often find that it’s better sent to the patient to come in and have your this done or that done. No follow-up beyond that. very often you find men who are in active surveillance, they go once or twice, they then fall off, they aren’t chased aggressively, and they come back four or five years later with quite significantly advanced training. Yes, it’s true. It’s partly their own fault for not following the active surveillance protocol, but it’s quite a tough protocol. I mean, it’s every six months, get your PSA checked every year, maybe come in for an MRI. If you live a fair distance away, or you don’t have the easy access to resources, that might not happen. And I’ve certainly heard of and seen cases where men on active surveillance have not followed carefully enough and have come a cropper. There’s an answer which is metastatic actually before it gets detected.

Robin Daly
it’s very interesting to have all this in the mix. I mean, you know, when the whole active surveillance concept came in, it was like, I completely agree with you, yes, that they’re not going to over treat, which was there was a lot of that going on, there’s no doubt about it. , but from where I stand, of course, the prostate is usually relatively indolent, slow grow. there’s so many strategies you can do to change the trajectory of that prostate cancer that men are just not being told about. And so active surveillance is actually just waiting for it to get worse, which, you know, seem terrible from my point of view. So, you know, what you’re doing is bringing in a whole different strand, a different approach, which you can say, no, we can do something about this. And the chances are it’s not going to be horribly destructive and offer you maybe a solution very soon. So that’s all great. I want to leave plenty of time to talk about another part of what you’re involved in, which is an initiative to help men after treatment with all the readjustments. Cancer has had a large impact on their life, and they’ve got to find out what life looks like going forward. you’ve got quite a comprehensive idea of how you might help people with that. So do you want to start to talk about your program?

Brian Lynch
Let me start something, and I’d like Dr. Edison to take most of it, but I’ll just go briefly. This was born out of, I take a lot of the calls that we take at the Coca-Cola mechanic, and I have a lot of men, know a lot of men who’ve had prostate cancer. while happily most of the, almost all the men who’ve had focal therapy managed to go on with their life with very little interruption, men who’ve had to go ahead and, you know, life is what prostate cancer is, it’s a difficult disease. Many men do need prostatectomy, and many men do need hormone therapy and radiotherapy treatment. And particularly the men on hormone radiotherapy treatment find that their quality of life is very significantly impacted in terms of things which people don’t normally think about when they think about prostate cancer, things like brain fog, fatigue, loss of muscle strength. it was meeting and knowing quite a lot of patients like that, that I began to ask myself, is there a way they could be rehabilitated in a much more proactive way than is presently done, which involves active support, active involvement. I’ve been, I have been looking at that for several years. when I met Dr. Marie, she was very responsive to that, having seen her work as a urology surgeon and watching what men are going through. And we began developing a program, and I’d like her to talk about it in terms of the type of things you’ve been looking at.

Dr Marie Edison
Yeah, so as Brian said, what we think is currently available for people who have been put into remission is a fairly passive way of giving that information. It’s often either leaflets or fairly generic advice, which is not bad or insensible advice but doesn’t leave people feeling like they have a clear pass of how to get back to health. Not having cancer is not the same as feeling healthy or feeling well in yourself and having good well-being. But also it doesn’t leave you with the materials to be really engaged with that recovery either. And with current resources and people being stretched, then they sort of fall into this slight crack where they go through their surveillance but the other aspects aren’t addressed. so what we are setting up is a clinic for initially starting with prostate cancer, given it’s what we know. Men who are in remission and it’s a year’s program aiming to get you back to your former self essentially. And that is with a type of medical systems medicine which looks at the body as a whole and in its dynamics. it’s based on principles of being both predictive, preventative, personalised and then participatory. And I think that last bit is the important one for us, is that we will do all the work up in that. So there’s several elements to this where we will do genomics, there is precision advice we can give in terms of nutrition and we are even looking at biological age clocks. There are flaws with them but as a measure to see that hopefully we can try and reverse some of the aggressive or more aggressive cancer treatments. But what we want is that last one, the engagement with you that we are here to help, there’s health coaches, we are here to support you and it is a journey over that one year. But to be engaged with it yourself and motivated and we will facilitate all of the rest. So this is aiming to take a sort of truly holistic approach, not looking at all the stuff that the treatments, the detriments can bring so that it’s everything from your more traditional medicine in terms of your cardiovascular and metabolic health but also looking at those bits that actually matter a lot more to patients. You have muscle loss, you may have more balance issues and you may have certainly more fatigued energy levels that Brian here mentioned and finally brain health and cognitive fog.

Brian Lynch
Brain fog is greatly underestimated for men, particularly after hormone therapy and radiotherapy and last persists for quite a long time. while everyone talks, a lot of people talk about the sexual function and the impact on relationships, brain fog can even be more significant, particularly for men of an older age who will respond to brain fog by being irritable, by finding it very difficult to cope by their partner finding it difficult to cope with them as they try to deal with the impact of brain fog. yet if they can get their life back, their general metabolism to a much healthier level, and they can begin to get trained about how to help their cognitive function, they can greatly relieve that symptom and improve on it. also with their partner, if everyone is aware of what’s happening and why it’s happening, it’s a lot easier to cope. But very often what happens is the men almost get to the stage, they think they’re getting early dementia and they just get frightened and they get anxious. And that translates to how they deal with their partner. it suddenly becomes a really difficult problem for the relationship and making people aware that this is almost inevitable as a consequence of the hormone therapy, that it will recover, but that you can accelerate recovery by working on your diet and your physical health, and also working on things like brain training, et cetera, that these things can improve. That’s a big difference for many men. one that’s neglected almost, when you listen to the literature, you almost rarely, rarely hear men being counseled and very rarely hear their wives being counseled on the importance of dealing with that and coping with that.

Robin Daly
I’ll tell you what, it’s incredibly heartening for me to hear you talking this way. I don’t think I’ve ever talked to anybody who I’ve felt has understood the journey of men after treatment in the way that you’re speaking about it. And I think it’s probably because of your rather in-depth way you’ve been dealing with men with a lot more, a much more rounded approach. You’ve been hearing a lot more from them of their situation than is generally the case. the fact you designed a program around these understandings you gained and hoping to address them is fantastic because it’s a massive gap. I think men are hugely underserved in this way. of course, they have all their own issues, you know, that women have set up a lot of good systems to support them. This could be much better, there’s no doubt about that. There’s plenty of room for improvement, but for men, they’re not even there, I don’t think, really. They don’t exist. So I really want to see this happen, that men become aware of the fact that what they’re suffering from is known about, that it can be helped, that there are strategies, there are people to go to. You know, this really needs to be something that’s spoken about.

Clare Delmar
I mentioned earlier about men coming to us with a second opinion, there’s a lot of reason why that’s important because they’re very motivated. And that’s a really important point. And I think to actually execute some of the things that Marie was talking about, including the participatory aspect of a year-long program following treatment, you must be motivated. So I think that’s one of the reasons why, again, the patients we have, we know they’ve proven that by coming to us in the first place and taking an active role in their own treatment. So that’s a very good starting point.

Robin Daly
one thing I would I need to ask, it all sounds very comprehensive this sort of one year program. I’ve had a look through your presentation of what’s in it and there’s a lot in there. There’s a lot of stuff in there. It’s very broad brush, very comprehensive, very rounded. but that’s a kind of signifies lots of money. can you give us some idea of what kind of investment someone’s going to have to make in a year long program?

Brian Lynch
We don’t fully know yet. And our orientation here is we’re going to try and keep, we want to keep it economic. We think the number is between five and 6,000 pounds. there are much higher numbers now, but something in that range. there may be some additional tests that men will want to do in addition, but the core program, we think we can make that work. That’s a full year. That will be your genes will be analyzed. All your body markers are analyzed. You’re good, analyzed. You get support on nutrition. You get support in mental health. You get support on physical fitness. You get supplements as needed to do with the various elements that can be used to try and help things like cellular senescence and mitochondrial damage, et cetera. Um, but we think five to 6,000 pounds is a reasonable estimate. The reason I’m being slightly cautious on this is we’re just beginning and we will be starting this with a hundred men, which we do under a clinical trial condition. to establish that we’ve done a hundred men, this is what they started. This is where they were at the start. This is their baselines and how they’ve improved, um, with the view to publishing that. Um, and then really giving people authority as to what they can expect in terms of the, you know, over the program, when will they see differences? How long will it take? Because for example, one of the things that’s interesting on the physical exercise side, it takes six months or so before people really feel a benefit. you’ve got to be, you’ve got to, people need to be way to where similarly with brain fog, you don’t fix brain fog in a day and there isn’t a drug to fix brain fog, but if you work physically and work at your health and work at your diet and sleep, it will immediately rate significantly faster than if you don’t. we want to be able to give people really clear markers as to what we can expect.

Robin Daly
Absolutely. Well, yes. That’s a very important part of it. Obviously if you want to get somebody emotionally invested in a year’s program, they need to expect some good results from it. So they need to be able to see that it actually works. that’s hugely important. So it’s great. You’re doing this kind of trial period because you will have some good data after that. Fantastic.

Robin Daly
Okay. So at the moment there’s no public information for people to find about this, but there will be soon. Hopefully.

Brian Lynch
But we will be, I think within two or three months, two months, two to three months, realistically three months, we have our premises. We’ll be working in a facility in Harley street, which is really quite beautiful. Uh, we, luckily they’ve got, they’ve got two years left in the lease so we could work with them for the two years, which is great. we know where we, we working with labs to agree prices and all the issues with the different testing to be done. That’s all ongoing as we speak. so we think two to three months will be open and trading.

Robin Daly
Excellent. where is information going to appear?

Brian Lynch
If you go to a website, you can tell us that you create a website called cancer re so cancer re it’s about they’re in remission. They need to recover. They need to restore and they need to recuperate.

Robin Daly
will people be able to be part of your trial?

Brian Lynch
We will have opening of about a hundred men and we will give a discount for those men because they’ll have to do extra work. If you’re on the trial, we’ll, we’ll need more accountability than we would expect of someone else. we will, what we’ll do with them is almost certainly give something like a 50% discount for the first hundred and then it’ll be normal.

Robin Daly
Well, look, we’re out of time. That was very interesting. Thank you very much. I’ve really enjoyed hearing about your program and all the work you’re doing. I think it’s great. Men need advocates in this area for sure.

Brian Lynch
we’ll be in touch with you again as well. There’ll be loads more to talk about.

Clare Delmar
Absolutely. Thanks, Robin.

Robin Daly
Thank you Claire, Brian and Marie. Men have a lot to thank a small group of determined individuals, starting with Professor Mark Emberton and his team at UCL, and including my guests today, for pushing the envelope of prostate cancer treatment. These people have led massive improvements in care that now mean that very large numbers of men’s lives after treatment are significantly better in many different ways. I hope many men listening today will take away information from the show that will help. Thanks for joining me today. I’ll be back again next week with another Yes To Life show.