Transcript Disclaimer – Please note that the following transcript has been machine generated by an AI software and therefore may include errors or omissions.

Robin Daly
Hello and welcome to the Yes to Life show on UK Health Radio. I’m Robin Daly, host to the show and founder of Yes to Life, the UK’s integrative cancer care charity, working for the last 20 years to broaden choice in cancer care and to advocate for a range of resources to meet the many needs of those with a diagnosis of cancer, a holistic response to their situation. Today I’m speaking to Dr. Zubin Marolia in India. Dr. Marolia is an integrative doctor and a homeopath who has become well known for his advocacy of mistletoe therapy. I’m speaking to him today in Mumbai. Thanks so much for joining me today from India.

Dr Zubin Marolia
Thank you Robin for inviting me and I’m really glad to be here.

Robin Daly
So I’m speaking to you at the Enlifen Clinic in Mumbai, a city I’d very much like to visit, but so far I’ve only passed through the airport, but at your clinic you work with a range of therapies that are not so usually associated with India. It’s a country that to us is very much connected with bringing Ayurveda and yoga meditation to us in Europe, so this signals the fact that you actually train outside of India, I believe. So would you tell us a bit about your experience, your training, beginning with the reasons that led you into medicine in the first place?

Dr Zubin Marolia
Well Robin, I began my journey at the Indian Homeopathic Medical University in Mumbai. I have always desired to be a physician, desired to be a healer to help people overcome their illness and heal truly from within. And I graduated in the homeopathic system of medicine from the Indian Medical University in Mumbai. And since then I began my journey practicing homeopathy for the initial two years. And I find the system of homeopathy as a very very gentle, safe and effective way of healing people. And then I stumbled upon the wonderful mistletoe in treating cancer. And there’s a very nice story which I would like to narrate over here wherein I was working with a doctor in Mumbai and who used to prescribe Iskador to his cancer patients and he used to see any cancer patients in his clinic.

Robin Daly
Okay, but I’ll jump in there, just let listeners know that Iskador is one of the brands of mistletoe therapy.

Dr Zubin Marolia
Thank you. And so I was seeing mistletoe being used in cancer patients and what really touched me at that point in time was the difference that mistletoe made in the quality of life of a cancer patient vis-a-vis overall improvement in fatigue, in nausea, vomiting, controlling symptoms of cancer and of course, prolonging survival and leading a better quality of life. The quality of life became a very important observation. At that time, I was around 24 and a half years old. I was a young man, young physician, running with confidence and energy. And so I was invited to learn mistletoe therapy and anthroposophy at the Lucas Clinic in Basel, Switzerland in 1991. And I learned about the basic principles of anthroposophy on which mistletoe therapy is based. And in 1991, I came back to India to serve my country, to serve suffering cancer patients in India. And I began treating cancer patients with mistletoe. And that’s how those were my first steps in mistletoe therapy.

Robin Daly
Right. Okay. And you’ve gone on to do other work outside of India, other training.

Dr Zubin Marolia
Right. So in 1994, my desire to learn about the immunological aspects and the impact mistletoe had on the immune system of a cancer patient was igniting. And so I visited the Lucas Clinic back and I worked over there to gain clinical experience under top European medical oncologists like Dr. Michael Lorenz in 1994. And then I began using mistletoe. I was using it in my clinics in India and in the homeopathic hospital over here in Mumbai. And then in 2009, I had the opportunity of being invited to be a clinical observer at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York.

Robin Daly
How did that come about?

Dr Zubin Marolia
That’s a beautiful story, Robin, and I was treating a patient in Hong Kong at that time with mistletoe, and that patient happened to mention that she’s on kurkumin. That is our story. And I asked her, I said, to kurkumin, man, where are you taking your kurkumin? And she said, from Sloan Kettering. And that kept me scratching my head. I said, Sloan Kettering means a hardcore alabatic conventional medical institution. How come they are using alternative therapies? And so I wrote to, of course, the late Dr. Barry Casillat, the head of integrative medicine. And then I came to know, Robin, that Sloan Kettering and a department of integrative medicine. Yes. And even today, I am associated with them. I had a meeting with the Department of Integrative Therapies in June this year, again, after so many years. And then I was in Sloan in 2009. And then I delivered a lecture at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine in the United States. I was invited to talk on mistletoe therapy and integrative oncology. I have also lectured regularly in the IMM, which is the integrated medicine meetings held in Germany every two years. I go to Germany every two years, and I’ve also worked in the Medical University of Vienna.

Robin Daly
So tell me a little bit about Sloan Kettering back then, I mean this we’re talking a decade ago now and already they had an integrated medicine department, that’s right and they were spearheading stuff that still hasn’t arrived in Britain.

Robin Daly
2009, so more than a decade ago, you know, still in this country, the main cancer centres, they’ve all got complementary therapy units, but those are run by charities generally, and they’re very limited about what they can offer. So, yeah, they were a long way ahead there in Sloan Kettering. So, yeah, tell me a little bit about what you found and what impressed you.

Dr Zubin Marolia
Well, my journey in Sloan Kettering Cancer Center was very interesting and I was interacting with the head of the department to learn about how they are using alternative therapies. Now here, the word alternative Sloan Kettering had dropped. They used complementary therapies in cancer care, which included acupuncture, herbal medicine, traditional Chinese medicine, aerobics, physical activity, music therapy, and something what is called as mindfulness-based stress reduction called NBSR. And I used to sit with audio tapes in the Library of Memorial Sloan Kettering listening to very interesting cassettes which involved using a meditation technique for cancer patients and which I believe that every cancer patient should use this meditation technique in their journey along with mistletoe therapy and that is called as guided imagery prior. And there are healing journey dates by Belaruth and Appat Sak Health Health Journeys dot com and you listen to those cassettes and they are very inspiring. So I was in fact involved in Sloan Kettering in shadowing physicians to understand how they work and how they apply the complementary therapies in the cancer treatment care. And it was a very, very nice experience because they were able to merge these therapies together. For example, there was a boy, a young boy, Robin, who had just got operated on the right arm and there was an amputation done of his entire right upper limb and he developed phantom pains because he had also done sarcoma. Sarcoma needed the amputation and the massage therapist over there used to do massage to relieve the phantom pains. So you see in the healing process in a cancer patient there are many modalities involved and I am a strong believer rather than in integrative medicine and oncology trying to merge complementary therapies at my centers here in Mumbai, India.

Robin Daly
Fantastic. So it obviously seems like you’ve always maintained, though, your desire to bring all this back to India. You haven’t been tempted to take up a job in the USA or in Europe along the way. Thanks for watching!

Dr Zubin Marolia
Well, well, Robin, many of my friends, my goodness, you’ve touched a very, very sensitive note, Robin. I love my country, Robin. I love India. And I think I think it is my strong roots. It is the love for my family. It is the love for my countrymen and the suffering people here in India that brought me back to my country. And I began using a lot of integrative oncology, where in peace for cancer patients here in India. And today, Robin, today I have an entirely established, one of the most well-researched integrative oncology units consisting of, I am guiding that unit as the head of director of integrative oncology. We have two oncosurgents, senior most oncosurgent. We have GI surgeons. We have endoscopy doctors, oncophysitions, physical therapists, and other yoga technicians who use and become together. Robin, this is very, very important in the cancer healing journey. You have to come together and you have to integrate. So here in Mumbai, I have a fully established, well-researched integrative oncology department, and we believe in working together.

Robin Daly
Hmm sounds great. All right, so but from all your international learning and experience you’ve maintained a bit more of an international connection I think than most other Indian doctors. You sort of still look out to the world and you travel and you speak and think so is that fair?

Dr Zubin Marolia
Well, I love traveling, Robin. I love meeting people in different countries. And as you know, I have been invited to speak in the United States on many occasions. This began in 2009 when I was in Sloan Kettering. I delivered a lecture at the Palliative Care Department of Sloan Kettering. 2013, I delivered a lecture in Johns Hopkins. Then I delivered all these lectures in Germany. But the most recent one and the most valuable interview which you saw and which you are aware, and I hope that you will be posting in your website as well, is for the event that was called the Truth About Cancer series. I’m sure that you know about it, the Truth About Cancer series. And I was invited to speak in California in Anaheim at the conference over there. And the interview that you saw expresses and shows exactly how I work in trying to understand a very unique concept in healing the world today is the three S concept. The three S’s which stand for suppression, spontaneity, and free spirit.

Robin Daly
Okay, well good. Well, I want to talk about those as well. Yeah, so you’ve already mentioned, you know, obviously your passion for integrative medicine. And, well, this is something that works on a practical level of bringing together people, as you say, different modalities to improve outcomes, and majorly widening the resources available to help patients. But it also operates at a kind of foundational level, which has to do with the practitioner-patient relationship, and supporting a patient’s spiritual well-being and their hope. These are also areas you feel very strongly about. I wonder if you want to say a bit about that.

Dr Zubin Marolia
Every patient that sees me Robin is always asked this opening question and I see many cancer patients throughout the month and they always come with a stack of reports and they want to show me the reports and the chemotherapy and the radiation and the surgery. Right. I don’t want to know that Robin as a physician, as an integrative medicine physician, I want to know your story. Like Robin, when I saw you on the on the internet, I reached out to you and I reach out to so many people every day. I mean, I sometimes I lose track of email that I do every day and trying to see people what they are doing. So I always ask my patients, tell me your story. And we begin the healing process with a healing journey. Wherein the patient unfolds their life story. And that leads us to the different stages in the life of a patient to understand the mind, body, spirit, access. And this Robin is irrespective of the illness that you had in cancer, in asthma, in auto immune diseases, in brain tumors, in any disease, all patients tell me their story. Okay. And that’s a very important part of medicine, which today is called as narrative medicine. Wherein the patient reveals their story. And when you understand the mind, body, spirit, access, and then you understand, of course, the staging of the cancer, the metastasis, what the cancer has done to a patient’s life. And how does a patient look at the cancer? I think it goes, it’s a two-way street in on college. Very important. Yes. then I start mistletoe therapy, yoga, diet, meditation, et cetera.

Robin Daly
Right. Okay. Great. Thank you for that. So talk a bit about your three S’s.

Dr Zubin Marolia
Well, Robin, after listening to patient stories for the last 25 years in my life, I found that tumors basically in cancers begin many, many years before the actual development of the lump or the mass in the breast or in the colon or wherever. And most cancer patients, the three S’s are very important. The first S is the S of suppression wherein they are felt suppressed in their life due to grief, due to disappointment, due to lack of job opportunities, due to failed relationships, divorce, being an orphan. We always try to identify at what level the patient is experiencing suppression. That is followed by how spontaneous they are. How spontaneous they are in doing the things that they like, in doing the thing that they enjoy in life. And then that leads us to a third S, which is called as the S of being of free spirit. And most patients who do interviews with me in their healing journeys have always, and they are always asked to stand after the healing journey interview to spread their arms out like this and feel the power of the universe. And then so suppression, spontaneity, and free spirit. And I’ve added two more S’s. Okay. And the fourth S is the S of simplicity. How many people do these simple things in life? How many people express themselves? That is very simply like, I love you. I care for you. I feel disappointed. And the four and the fifth S is the S of self, to care for yourself, to do those activities that are important with you, that are important to you. So you have suppression, spontaneity, a free spirit, the self, and of course, simplicity. So this encompasses my healing journey with patients.

Robin Daly
Okay, and how do those play into the way that you work with patients? Okay, those are kind of focuses, if you like, that you want to find out about, you want to support. How do you actually work with them?

Dr Zubin Marolia
So once we identify these five S’s, we understand the mind, body, spirit axis. And this is a very, very ancient quote. And here, Robin, I would like to narrate a very, very important quote in my life. And I’ve said this in the United States when I give a lecture over there every year. And this quote is by Sir William Osler. Okay. Sir William Osler quote, it is more important to know what kind of a person has the disease than what kind of a disease is there in the person. So I want to know who the person suffering from cancer is. I want to know everything about the person, about his feelings, perceptions, relationships, diets, sleep, dreams, to understand the constitution of the person. That is the mind, body, and spirit axis of the person, Robin. And then we give a homeopathic remedy based on that understanding of the life journey. So all this process is also therapeutic for the patient, Robin, because when you unfold your story, you are healing from inside out. I’m very, very pleased and glad to mention that I am invited for the third consecutive year to speak at the Annie Appleseed Conference in West Palm Beach, Florida, next January in 25.

Robin Daly
Yeah, very interesting. The power of getting somebody to share their story, if you’re actually taking an interest in somebody’s story, I think most people feel that no one is interested in their story and it’s just something that they locked away. So, but yeah, I think you’re right that if you actually invite people to share in that way, you’re already providing healing to them.

Dr Zubin Marolia
Thank you so much, Robin. Yes, this is what we do at our centers, not only in India, but I also consult with patients in the United States. So I’m there for about eight days, about twice or twice a year in the US, and we reach out to so many people, and so many people, Robin, you cannot imagine. when they sit with me for one hour, one and a half hours, they always come and tell me that, why wasn’t this done before? I’m spending just in the US, I’m spending eight minutes. Robin, you cannot believe that into ten minutes is what a patient spends with a physician. So when they come to me and they sit down and we have tea, we have cookies together, we have tried and make them feel comfortable so that they really, really understand that I am reaching out to them, trying to help them to heal themselves.

Robin Daly
Okay, so, back to your training and everything, you’re primarily a homeopath. Now, homeopathy, as we know, is a western discipline, but it seemed to become really well-embedded in India into the culture there, and as you say, they’ve got a training college, all this kind of thing. So, it’s not an unusual modality to be on offer in India, but that’s a lot less true of anthroposophical medicine, I think, and I imagine that your offering’s pretty unusual. Actually, anthroposophical medicine’s not so well appreciated here in the UK either, even though I think it’s got a lot to offer. So, would you tell us a bit about anthroposophical medicine, where it originated, and what its methods are?

Dr Zubin Marolia
Well, anthroposophical medicine is very, very similar to homeopathy and of course the founder of anthroposophical medicine is Rudolf Steiner and he had certain principles in which he had shared again the main aspect that the human being is one and to understand the human being as a whole and unless you do a holistic understanding you cannot really reach out to a human being and healing. So there are many, many factors which he had propounded that would be difficult for me to kind of mention his entire philosophy but as a holistic medical science it has a very important role in Europe today.

Robin Daly
Okay, so yeah, it’s enormously supportive. I found in my experience, they’ve got fantastic techniques for supporting people in a variety of ways, which are quite creative and inventive. So one of the offerings of anthroposophical medicine is mistletoe. This has come out again from Rudolf Steiner, I think. And yeah, I imagine it’s one of the main reasons that people with cancer are finding new these days is because you become well known and identified with mistletoe treatment. Yeah, as you say, you’ve been working with this for more than three decades. This means you’re pretty damned experienced and you’re highly committed to its benefits. So first of all, can you tell us about the treatment, what it looks like?

Dr Zubin Marolia
So mistletoe, oh boy, I think first of all we really have to consider the tradition of mistletoe and the ancient history of mistletoe as we know and we all know you kiss under the mistletoe and you plant a kiss each time you pluck a berry from the plant and and it’s so beautiful and it’s a romantic plant it’s a plant of love and in cancer patients Robin lack of love unfulfilled love and love that has not been reciprocated is the three main factors that cause cancer and and and if you really see the similarity of the mistletoe plant to a cancer you will be amazed Robin because the mistletoe plant grows in all directions it’s a parasitic plant as you know it grows on the whole stream similarly a cancer is kind of a tumor a lump or a mass which grows on the human host and there are various other similarities like the mistletoe plant grows in all directions similarly a cancer grows in all directions so this similarity this this particularly beautiful earthly similarity between the mistletoe and cancer brought it together and there are four main factors why cancer patients should use mistletoe therapy whenever they are diagnosed or at whatever stage in their treatment and I would like to highlight this very very clearly and I want to people to listen to this very carefully the first being the immunomodulatory capacity of the mistletoe and its huge impact on the immune system wherein mistletoe helps to optimize the immune system to form natural killer cells which go on to kill the cancer cells the number one is a strong immune system the second Robin is its impact directly on the cancer cells which is by a process what’s called as programmed cell death or apoptosis wherein the mistletoe plant stepwise helps in killing the cancer cell so it also has a cytotoxic effect and number three Robin is the impact of mistletoe to reduce the side effects when patients take chemotherapy and radiation so it has a huge impact in supporting the quality of life in a cancer patient who are undergoing immunosuppressive healthies that’s number three and number three Robin is my favorite the importance of the quality of life in a cancer patient both psychological and physical mistletoe helps to relieve the cancer symptoms improve well-being and soft well-being improve what is called as cellutogenesis in which this means that life has to be structured comprehensible and meaningful so it improves the quality of life so in a summary Robin first immunogenic capacity direct action on the cancer the reduction of chemotherapy radiation and target therapy side effects and improved quality of life that is palliative care

Robin Daly
Yeah, it’s a great range of support. In fact, very interestingly, I mean, presumably when it was initially put forward as a cancer treatment, it wasn’t being thought of as something to deal with side effects of chemotherapy. But the fact it does happen to help with those is a bonus on top of this other features, but probably is his ability to support our well-being in our immune system that it was primarily targeted for. Yeah, a very wide range of things there. So look, is this something that anybody with cancer can consider?

Dr Zubin Marolia
Anyone, anyone of cancer should take Mistletoe at some stage to support their immune system. Absolutely. I have cancer patients from all over the world today who do online consults or physical consults and they come and meet me in my clinic. And we use Mistletoe at every stage in stage one, stage two, and also in palliative care in advanced cancers in stage three and stage four. Interesting.

Robin Daly
quite often approaches that are useful in solid tumors are not much use with blood or lymph cancers. How about mistletoe?

Dr Zubin Marolia
we’ve used mistletoe very successfully with blood cancers as well, Robin. I have a young boy with acute myeloid leukemia who receives immunosuppressive, aggressive immunologic malignancy therapies, and he takes mistletoe last about three years and he’s doing fine. I have a mistletoe Facebook group, Robin, on the FBI, as you know, it’s called mistletoe cancer therapy, and people ask me to join.

Robin Daly
it’s probably fairly unique in its ability to target every kind of cancer in this way. There are not many other things that you can say will do that. I mean, exercise probably, but would you agree with that? It’s pretty unique.

Dr Zubin Marolia
It is. It is very unique. I mean, you are taking the most romantic plant in the world, taking the plant of your dog, Robin. I think what better incentive for a patient who has lacked love in their life and they are imbibing the force of the plant into them. Right.

Robin Daly
So, you brought up this point that lack of love was right up there as a reason that people have cancer. Why do you say that and is it coming from your personal experience or is it something you learnt?

Dr Zubin Marolia
Robin, once again, we go back to the quote by Sir William Osler, it’s more important to know the person than the disease and the person. Yes. When I do a reading journey, one and a half hours, two hours, two and a half hours, with one patient, we encounter certain psychological characteristics that can lead to cancer development. these characteristics, as I mentioned, are lack of love, sometimes grief, loss of an near and dear one, a failed relationship, a divorce, unfulfilled love, post-traumatic stress disorders, and shock. This forms the cancer psyche. Many of the doctors do not understand the importance of understanding the cancer psyche of a patient. And this becomes a very important part of therapy. So lack of love is a very, very important component that forms the cancer psyche.

Robin Daly
this is something you’ve found out by your in-depth investigations into who your patients are.

Dr Zubin Marolia
Absolutely. So over 25 years of listening to patient stories, I have understood the cancer psyche, what goes on in their lives, which contributes eventually to form a tune.

Robin Daly
would you say that mistletoe therapy is the main therapy you’re delivering these days?

Dr Zubin Marolia
my protocol that involves how I see a patient, the first step in my protocol is the healing journey. Tell me your story. The second stage is understanding the cancer psyche. Third is mesototherapy. Then we have homeopathy. Then we have diet and importance of diet can never be negated. So diet and then exercise and then meditation. Sothere is a step by the therapeutic protocol which I sit and I plan for every individual patient.

Robin Daly
Right, and your dietary recommendations have to be pretty tailored, presumably with your very different patients as you’ve got. And what’s the thinking that you’re using in your dietary recommendations? Is it, I mean, Indian culture uses diet a lot in Ayurveda, are you using that kind of basis for your recommendation?

Dr Zubin Marolia
Yes. So, you know, Robert, it’s very interesting. I see so many patients with acidity nowadays, and many people come and ask me, and they’ve been to the GI doctor, from GI doctor run an endoscopy. But no one has ever asked a patient, how do you eat your food? Acidity is not based on what food you eat. It is on how you eat your food. Are you at peace with yourself when you eat your food? Are you relaxed when you eat your food? So, its diet is catered to every individual patient. So, we advise a strictly vegetarian diet with some meat, allow allowance of white meat, proteins, and I use a lot of apricot kernels. Apricot kernels contain B-17, as you may be knowing, B-17 used for cancer treatment, Robert. So, B-17 and I use curcumin, and I am not a big fan of supplements. I see so many patients, Robin, who keep on adding supplements in their treatment. I am not a big fan of them. I use only limited supplements.

Robin Daly
Right, so diet is first. Fair enough. Okay, very interesting what you say about the state you’re in when you eat your food. I mean, one thing we know, of course, is that when you’re stressed, you can feel that in your gut. You can actually, you know there’s something going on in there. And, of course, you can imagine that that would affect your digestion.

Dr Zubin Marolia
Absolutely, absolutely Robin. In fact, I have many corporate clients who come and meet me for non-dancer ailments. Okay. And I always tell them, tell me how you eat your breakfast, how you eat your lunch, how do you eat your dinner? And who do you eat your meal with? You eat your meal with a loved one. Do you eat your meal with a loved one? It’s so very important. And how fast do you eat your food? So these are the very, very interesting small nuggets in ballistic health.

Robin Daly
Okay, and can we just talk, coming back to this also, can we just talk a little bit about using it alongside conventional therapies? Thank you.

Dr Zubin Marolia
So it’s very important to liaise between the conventional doctor, your oncologist, your oncocergent, and the complementary medical practitioners. So we have a unit wherein we understand each other well, and we give mistletoe and omeopathy, and we have a discussion with the doctors and my patients feeling free to share their feelings and tell their conventional doctors that they are on mistletoe therapy. So we work in integration, it’s important.

Robin Daly
It’s very important. So you’re saying that it does work alongside the conventional therapist, but everybody needs to know what’s going on.

Dr Zubin Marolia
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Robin Daly
Well, most people don’t have the luxury of that in Britain, they’re doing mistletoe treatment, they’re quite likely better off not telling their oncologist because they caused trouble. So it’s a sorry state and one which of course we’re working hard to change. Are there any times or situations where you wouldn’t use mistletoe therapy for a cancer patient?

Dr Zubin Marolia
Well, in autoimmune diseases, with a lot of progression, a lot of structural damage like connective tissue disorders, I would not use muscle jog.

Robin Daly
So there are some caveats then that that’s the kind of area which you would be concerned of if somebody got another disease which could be affected by stimulating their immune system, for example.

Dr Zubin Marolia
Right. Okay. And thank you, Robin, for having me over here. I think we have just connected last month and I hope that I have been able to share my journey and to explain to people the benefits of Nusselt or therapy in cancer treatment.

Robin Daly
Yeah, it’s very interesting. I wonder, do you want to tell listeners where they can find out more about you and your work?

Dr Zubin Marolia
Well, as you know, I have a Facebook page called Mistletoe Cancer Therapy. And you can contact me on my website, enlischen.in. And my email address is zubin, Z-U-B-I-N, at the rate enlischen.in. And I’ll be most happy to reach out to help people and to heal them.

Robin Daly
Excellent. All right. Well, thanks very much indeed for this interview, Zubin. The evidence that many people are receiving benefit from mistletoe of one kind or another is there in space, so I can well understand your enthusiasm for it and it’s great to be able to pass on some of that to our listeners today.

Dr Zubin Marolia
Thank you, Robin, I’m most happy to be here. I consider myself truly blessed by the Almighty to work with the mistletoe.

Robin Daly
Okay, thank you. Goodbye.

Robin Daly
As always you’ll find information relating to Dr Morolia as mentioned in the interview on the Yes To Life website along with the other details of the show. please note that there are almost 500 back editions of the show available and there’s a search facility to find shows by guest, topic or keyword. It’s a massive resource of information as well as an excellent introduction to any practitioner that you may be considering using yourself. It’s just a few days till the next Yes To Life event which is titled The Repurposing Revolution. It’s a hybrid event which means you can attend in person on the 15th of October at Friends House, Euston, London or you can attend online. Further details can be found on the Yes To Life website. This professional seminar features two leading figures in the world of drug repurposing, Jane McClelland and Dr Michael Castro and it will be held in the evening of the 15th of October. The in-person spaces are almost all gone so hurry if you do want to attend. Thanks for listening and a particular thanks if you’re one of the show’s many regular listeners. I’ll be back again next week with another Yes To Life show here.