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Robin Daly
Hello and welcome to the Yes To Life show on UK Health Radio. I’m Robin Daly and as well as hosting this show I’m the founder of Yes To Life, the UK’s integrative cancer care charity advocating for the adoption of integrative care for those with cancer, a broad holistic approach that seeks to address the needs that arise from every aspect of the experience of cancer. Increasingly one of the sources of support that’s proving to be very helpful is coaching by specialist cancer coaches. Emma Sabin is someone with her own extraordinary story to tell in relation to cancer who’s now trained to support others as a cancer coach.

Emma Sabin
Hi Robin, thank you for having me.

Robin Daly
You’re one of the species of cancer specialists who not that long ago were a rarity But are becoming much more numerous now, which is a great thing I think as they’re fulfilling a great need and what I’m talking about is cancer coaches So I’m gonna want to go on to talk in detail about cancer coaching today But first I’d like to hear a little bit more about you You’re one of those people who get described as an extraordinary survivor as it’s now Many years I think more than A decade ago you got a late stage diagnosis of breast cancer.

Emma Sabin
it’s a decade, just over.

Robin Daly
So I wonder if you take us back to that diagnosis and tell us about the emotional journey you went through that took you from being a victim of cancer to someone who in your own words could see cancer as the catalyst that taught me how to truly take care of myself and help me realise that life was only worth living if I fully embraced being me. So that was a journey. So yeah, tell all.

Emma Sabin
So, yes, it was a decade ago. I was just, I was near, I was 39. I was, I was about six days away from being 40. And I found a lump on my left breast one morning, getting ready for work, just putting body lotion on. Luckily, I had an appointment with a doctor the next day. Funnily enough, or something that I thought could be a problem, a little, it turned out to be a cyst on my hip. I was going in to have that looked at. And when she saw the lump on my breast, she basically said, yeah, let’s get you seen pretty quickly. I was really lucky in that I, I had private healthcare, I was able to see, see a specialist that day. And literally, I think it was five days later, I found I had late stage breast cancer and had moved into my lymph nodes. And my life just crumbled. I was trying to have a baby at the time, literally had been trying for a couple of months and decided at that late stage in my life, you know, the irony I’d been holding off, I was a sales director in the corporate world, living, living a very fast lifestyle. I look back now, you know, I can see all the reasons why I got cancer. None of them genetic. And what followed was, yeah, I can only say a journey of fear and trauma. And I suppose now I look back a rebuilding of my life, but at first I obviously was sort of, you know, broken down. They say life begins at 40. And I remember thinking very angry at the time, gosh, this is not life beginning at 40. And yeah, I look back now and I think, actually, it was a very different life beginning at 40. A life that I didn’t know that I needed, really, it was kind of like, you know, a bit of a lesson, I suppose, a bit of a wake up call. The life I was leading was a very yang lifestyle, you know, to put it in sort of ying and yang and those sort of terms. What do you mean by that? Okay, so in yoga philosophy, the yang is the sort of masculine, the drive, the driving force, we all have ying and yang parts in us, we all have masculine and permanent energies. And I was leading a very driven, you know, as a sales director, I was working with men in a corporate environment, I was trying to compete in a male environment, I was working hard fast, it was a fast lifestyle. And I wasn’t really looking after myself. I mean, I was looking after myself, but I wasn’t calm. I wasn’t, you know, I didn’t have the yin aspect. And the yin is where it’s almost like rest and digest, I suppose, it’s almost like the feminine, it’s very nurturing. And so, yeah, I, my yang lifestyle went to turned into a very yin lifestyle. But what followed was, yes, I had the normal allopathic health care, I had a double mastectomy, after I’d had IVF, I had chemotherapy, I had radiotherapy. And then they, yeah, there was a lot of drugs that I was, I was supposed to go on for 10 years, but I decided I wanted to try other ways. So, yeah.

Robin Daly
Yeah. So can we focus in on the kind of emotional bit of it now? Because you said your life felt a bit basically at that point. All your future plans in the bin, all your expectations, particularly saying you just go around to thinking you might like to have children. These are all massive crushing blows to people’s sense of self, their feeling about life. So and it’s really interesting to hear you talk about the way you moved through that and things that helped turn it around.

Emma Sabin
Yeah, I mean, as a woman of 40, to have your breasts, you know, removed, it’s, you know, I remember laughing and joking at the time trying to put a spin on it, you know, oh, I’m going to have, you know, you breasts, you know, it’s great at 40 and kind of obviously not, but I remember the day I got home from the hospital and yeah, it was, it was, it was a huge grief. I realised the absolute, the extent of what had happened, you know, and it was, and the, and the realisation I was not going to be a mother naturally. It was all two, two massive things for a woman, you know, to come to terms with. So yeah, the irony of being in a man’s world and then realising that I was no longer going to have these attributes that a woman had, it was, it was incredibly hard. It was, it was, it was a huge trauma. It took me a while to get over it, as you can imagine. And I, I literally, I mean, I was very lucky in that I, I had a good job. So I got, you know, some, some support. And then eventually when I left that job, I got a redundancy. And it’s thanks to that redundancy that I managed to support myself physically, mentally, emotionally. And I got myself a counsellor. I used all of the sort of, you know, there were coaching groups. There were just, it was, I basically talked to people that supported me. I was very, very lucky in that I met people on the way that I needed. And somehow I found the strength to get through something that I, you know, we do, don’t we? The human resolve, it’s amazing. We will, we will continue to survive. Something in me found, you know, this desire to keep moving and moving despite being bald, being, you know, having no eyebrows and eyelashes and feeling absolutely, you know, broken. But yeah, I, I managed to, I mean, I did all sorts of weird and wonderful things for myself. I used plant medicine on the sort of physical aspect, but also on the emotional aspect. I looked at a lot of the emotions and repressed feelings that I hadn’t really dealt with. And I think a lot of the work I did was realising how, as a person before I got cancer, you know, I wasn’t really feeling, I wasn’t really, I was a human doing, not a human being. And I learnt, I learnt how to start feeling. I had to, I had to, you know, I had to in order to move through life. And, you know, my counsellor helped me a lot, helped me come to terms with the life that had gone. I was really lucky as well. I had an amazing boyfriend at the time, and my sister and family, you know, and they, they very much supported me through it. And, you know, when I look back now, I just had this amazing journey of finding all these weird and wonderful things that, in their millionaires, I would never have dreamt of doing, you know, energy medicine and, you know, shouting and jumping and laughing, you know, cold therapy, singing, you know, all these amazing things that I realise now the human body needs, you know, and can help, can help them. And yeah, I mean, but I remember thinking at the time, you know, who do you turn to? Nobody has gone through that. I was like, nobody can help you. And that was what was really, really hard. The loneliness, you know.

Robin Daly
Yeah, yeah. Well, a lot of people speak about that. Yeah. So, interestingly, you found all sorts of help in all sorts of shapes and forms. And the softening thing, of course, is the result. Because 10 years ago, if you had a late stage cancer like yours, well, you know, you might stave it off a little while, but the chances of having 10 years of good life ahead of you were very slim indeed. So, I assume that you attribute your good results to at least some of those weird and wonderful things that you did. Oh, yeah.

Emma Sabin
Right. I look back and I think, what was it? And I, you know, I think holistic health is everything, isn’t it? You don’t get cancer because you ate a Mars bar and you don’t get well because you ate an apple. I got sick because my life, cancer was telling me something was wrong with my life. I had an imbalance in my body, whether that was the physical aspect or the emotional aspect, the environmental aspect. And I literally threw the book at it in every single way to get myself. Well, I didn’t really think about it in that logical sense. I literally went along, as we do in life, you know, something came into my life. You know, I met a doctor who taught me about light and I learned about circadian rhythm and putting my feet on the ground and grounding and getting cold every day and watching the sunrise. That massively had a big effect on my physical health. It also had a massive effect on my emotional health. And I didn’t realize at the time that when you get light in the morning, you increase your serotonin and you increase your dopamine. And of course, your melatonin. And then of course, then that helps your sleep. And it’s like this cascading, brilliant effect. And so as my physical health improved, so my emotional health has improved. And of course, then of course, the spiritual health, you know, that also, and you end up having a reason for living. And the whole thing, it’s one big picture, isn’t it?

Robin Daly
Well, we talk about it conveniently in these different boxes, just as a way of talking about it really, but you’re right, there’s no, it’s seamless really, and everything affects everything else. And you talk about your state of mind got better because you looked up to your body better and everything, but of course it was the other way as well. And you know, it’s a complete process going on in all dimensions at once. Something where I’m likely to ever work out properly what’s going on, but we definitely just that understanding that it is such a whole picture, I think is a great thing in itself because you didn’t obviously put any limits on what it was you thought was included and not included. It was a battle of going for wholesome wellness in every possible dimension you could. It sounds like I’m going to be putting words in your mouth. Yeah. And it’s that whole approach, which if you like is, that’s what conventional medicine doesn’t do. It’s very limited in that way. It just takes one part of the whole picture and does a lot of useful stuff, but just in that one area. And therefore people who just rely on that one area are falling short. That would be our view as yes to life is saying, look, it’s a much bigger picture than that. And this is a massive opportunity to question all the things that led you to this place of having cancer and reevaluate them and possibly set out in a completely different direction.

Emma Sabin
Yeah, very much so. I mean, I remember walking into a natural health shop with my local one and this lady was stood there and just thought, you had breast cancer? Oh, and she handed me this book, you know, and the book was about the energy in the body and the emotions associated with the different parts of the body. I remember thinking, oh my God, what is this? You know, and she told me about some plant medicine I needed to go and try and, you know, all weird and wonderful things, but they’re actually only weird and wonderful because, well, they’re only weird because they’re not part of the normal.

Robin Daly
They’re not common near her, right?

Emma Sabin
Whereas, you know, if you look back at traditional society, that’s how, that’s how they use medicine, you know, and we’ve, yeah. And so I feel very blessed because, you know, it was a hard journey, but I learned a lot. I learned so much and I worked with so many amazing people, doctors and healers and just learned so many amazing things about the human body and the human, you know, how, what we are capable of. And I just, I love seeing, I love seeing how we can survive, you know.

Robin Daly
it’s amazing I mean yeah I’ve at this point met so many people who should have died and they’re having the you know their best life as they would say you know they’re living so well and yeah yeah it’s a testament to what we’re capable of and we set our mind to it right yeah so somewhere along the way you bumped into the radical remission project yeah so quite a few listeners will be at least somewhat familiar with radical remission probably through the book but not all so I wonder if you could tell us about the project what his aims are and what its achievements are so far

Emma Sabin
So the radical emission project was started by Dr. Turner over a decade ago now, she wrote a book called radical emission based on, that was her first book, based on the research that she had done on spontaneous remissions. So spontaneous remissions, as you will know, you know, the patients that have survived as they’ve either tried conventional health care and it’s not worked, they’ve moved to integrative or, and then it’s like, or, you know, it’s that and there’s all those sides to it. But it’s the non normal route, I should say, for those patients that were given diagnoses that weren’t actually, you know, they weren’t supposed to be around for more than five years. So she was studying them. And she wanted to find out what they thought had healed them. And they came up with about 75 different reasons and these are 150 cases of radical emission all around the world. And the top 10 with us, well, actually, when she wrote the book, the top nine were the same. And these factors, the top healing factors, were the things that all the people had done. And she’d asked the patients and she’d asked the healers. And these are things that, you know, they were the common factors, basically, in the people that were living good, healthy lives. And I remember being told about this book when I first got diagnosed, I remember seeing this list. And actually, it was the word spirituality that put me off when I first saw it, I was thinking, oh, spirituality, that’s God, that’s the Church of England, that’s what I used to have to do, you know, and I instantly was like, no, and I discarded it.

Emma Sabin
And then two years after my diagnosis my father died and it was a yeah, it was very traumatic again and my health Funnily enough went downhill And it just goes to show what the emotional, you know, the emotional impact has and I went to I Ended up going away into Portugal to get over my father’s death and in one day radical mission came up three times You know and I was like Oh God, I’m gonna have to look at this book So I remember sitting I remember vividly sitting on a beach and googling what the factors were Yeah, and I remember looking at them and thinking I’ve done them. Oh my gosh. This is amazing Yeah, I had I’ve done all they’re now ten Because dr. Turner had actually she’s actually realized when she went back She’s added exercise into one of those as to one of the healing factors the patients at the time hadn’t Referred to as exercise because it wasn’t going to the gym and it wasn’t playing tennis, but they were moving They were there was movement. Yeah, so dr. Turner. Yeah, she’s written a second book called radical hope and she basically shares amazing positive stories about people around the world who have Healed, you know and have been been told they shouldn’t be alive. You know, they were told These are the stories we don’t hear about, you know The stories that you just don’t hear about when you’ve been diagnosed You don’t hear about the person who was told they’ve got six months to live and they’re still here 20 years later and so she she’s yeah, it’s an amazing project amazing and I’ve been working with with her now for the last year or so and it just For me what I find really interesting about radical mission is out of the ten factors only three are physical boom Which you know tells it speaks volumes doesn’t it and goes back to what we said does be

Robin Daly
You’re absolutely right, it’s by far the most striking thing about it is that, you know, the whole focus of treating cancer is on the physical, and yet the things that these people ascribe as being the most important, you know, it’s by far the minority of the things that are actually physical. Yep. Is there a right exercise, change of diet, and supplements as well? That’s correct, yeah, that’s right. Yeah, and everything else is much more esoteric really, you know? Really? And there are really things that, you know, most people would think, well, that’s nice, but is it that important? But actually, these proved to be really important, things like intuition and things, which… Is there a… Yeah, I think, you know, I think it’s really highlighted just what an important navigational tool intuition is in finding a way through this amazing maze of possibilities you could engage in in order to get well. Yeah. And how do you ever know which is the right way? You can’t possibly read enough papers to sort of work it out or anything. No. There isn’t a tool to do it other than your intuition. No. But surprisingly, your intuition is very good. You must have used it.

Emma Sabin
Yeah. I mean, if you told me 10 years ago, my intuition was going to be used. I’d be like, oh my goodness, I don’t trust it. I never thought. Yeah, right. And even now, I sometimes, my head takes over instead of my heart or my gut or whatever, but it’s my intuition that I think got me here today. And I mean, that’s what I love about the book is it talks, everyone’s different. And I think that’s the thing. What’s right for me is not right for you. What’s right for… We all have different paths in life, and that’s the same with cancer. The way to healing isn’t the same for absolutely everyone. And that really comes across in the book. For instance, even with the nutrition, that’s the first place people go to, isn’t it? What should I eat? Absolutely. What should I eat? Yeah, that’s the first. And I remember being absolutely… I went vegan, and I was vegetarian, and I was paleo. And actually, now I do eat meat, but I make sure I eat grass fed meat, and I actually do better on it. But that’s what’s right for me. And that’s where I am 10 years later. And that’s the thing. We all have our own journey, don’t we? And it’s really hard. It’s a really scary journey. It is. That’s why having some sort of guidance, these radical healing factors, it can kind of focus your mind a little bit and think, okay, am I getting enough social support? Do I have enough time on my own? Do I have enough quiet time? Just a little reminder, isn’t it?

Robin Daly
it opens up questions you might not answer. Yeah. Great. I mean, you know, I’m a huge fan and love that book as soon as I saw it. It’s like our last, you know, somebody is actually paying the right amount of attention to these people who are surviving, who previously, as you say, you never heard about these people. There was nowhere that they all came together under one umbrella like that before. And for you to even evaluate sort of, well, how consistent is it? How many are there or anything else? It was just like, if you got really lucky, you’ve heard one story of somebody or another, which, you know, you had to hang your hope on. But now it’s like, okay, lots of other people can do this. What about me?

Emma Sabin
Yeah. It’s just, I love the marriage of science and almost, you know, the hippie world. I don’t want to give it that name, but that’s how it’s known. You know, I remember, I remember right at the beginning, we were getting some wood and the wood chopper came in with his wife into the house and his wife came in and said, you’re not having chemo, are you? And I was like, well, of course I’m having chemo. You know, why would I even not do that? You know, I remember thinking, well, I’ve got some colloidal silver. You need to look at this. You need to look at this. And I remember thinking, wow, that’s really insane and not the word, but I was really gobsmacked, you know? And now, of course, here I am 10 years later and I would never say to someone, don’t have chemo, but I would say, have you considered all of these things as well? Would you do all these things? You know, and I love that, you know, what Dr. Turner’s done is she’s made it normal. Like you say, it’s science. There’s the case studies, there’s the scientific information with these stories of normal people who, you know, had never heard of anything like that. And they, you know, I just, I like, yeah, I feel very, very, it’s just so positive. And I buy the book for anyone who’s been diagnosed because they need positivity.

Robin Daly
books for people who are newly diagnosed. Yeah and that thing you were talking about which is to do with how it was back then you’re not doing chemo are you? I think you know we’ve all moved on since then it’s still around that kind of us and then war or getting on the other side’s going to kill you kind of approach. But there is actually now some middle ground and is that middle ground has been I mean can they turn as one of the people who’s helped to build that middle ground by as you say making these completely different approaches to well-being kind of you know people know about it they understand that and in its wake has come the science to back it up as well of course people are researching well why do these things work and it’s great you know and of course the middle ground is where the people with cancer live getting shot at from both sides and so you know the more that the the practitioners move into that middle space and all help the patients with whatever they have to offer the better. Yeah. Anyway so you got involved with radical remission can you tell us about that what does that mean getting involved what have you done.

Emma Sabin
So, yeah, Dr. Turner, Heli, she was, a lot of people came to her, she was, she’d written the book and she would hold workshops herself and obviously she’s a very, very busy person. And she had a lot of people saying to her, you know, do you have any coaches? Do you have people that can help me take me through this? Because it’s very overwhelming, you know. I mean, I’m, as I said, when I first saw this list, I was like, oh, no, spirituality. And I cast it aside. And I went through the journey myself, but it was a very overwhelming journey and it took a long time, you know, for me to get where I got to. And so she basically started running a teach training program to train people, to help people go through the radical remission factors. So that instead of me saying, for instance, I can’t do spirituality, that means God and church. And I would have been told that actually spirituality doesn’t mean that actually. What it means to me now is being in the sea and connecting to something bigger and realizing, you know, and having some calm. So yes, I basically started working with them last year, trained as one of her radical remission coaches. And I’ve been working with a company called Health Navigators in the States who are all set up already, like basically working with Kelly and helping people like me go through the journey with some support. And as I said, it’s not about obviously not telling people what to do. It’s about saying, this is what can help. These are suggestions and literally sharing the information and then guiding them through it. So helping them realize what is the diet that’s right for them. And just, it’s such a privilege, I have to say, it’s such a privilege. You know, I feel very, I feel very, very lucky to be able to work with such an amazing organization because I just, you know, to help people not go through what I had to go through.

Robin Daly
It’s just marvelous. It is, it is. The best. Well, yeah, it is the best because, you know, when you’re somebody like yourself who’s been there, well, of course, you know exactly why people need support because you have the experience. And so, yeah, ideally placed. And we take a similar approach with like our helpline, for example, the people are on that are all people who have cancer, you know, so they know, they know what being supportive looks like. And yeah, so it’s really great. Yeah. So out of this, you’ve made your own program called shine through cancer. So maybe you give us the top line. What do you offer the people and who are you aiming it at?

Emma Sabin
So it’s a combination really of information, so it would be looking, it includes the radical emission ten factors and working through that, but also really looking at all the other information I don’t feel that I learned that has really helped me, that I had to find myself, that I had to research, that I had to experience, you know, with doctors and with healers, and the things that I really feel made a significant shift in my health, for instance, light, you know, the use of light and the circadian rhythm, that for me is huge, you know, that significantly turned around my health and my sleep, which as we know is, you know, the cornerstone of healing, and that’s just one example, but also the detoxification side of, you know, it’s quite scary, you know, all sorts of detoxing ways, and it’s really important to do them, you know, I made lots of mistakes, I know what works, what doesn’t work, and I know, you know, there’s some fun, you know, some weird and wonderful things you can do, and there’s ways to make them easy. So there’s the information side, but then on top of that, I mean, I’m, I was trained in dance movement psychotherapy, and I’m, I worked in the corporate world, and I love working with people, and I love coaching, I’m also a children’s yoga teacher and meditation coach with teens, so I’ve kind of married everything I’ve learned in my past.

Emma Sabin
with people and then the information and then my own experience. You know, I’ve kind of brought all of that together and that’s why it’s called Shine Through Cancer because obviously there is a point to light but also, listen, I don’t want to make it, you know, a Pollyanna story. It’s not all light and roses and skipping but I do believe you can learn some lessons and you can come through this journey and you can come out better. I really believe that would I like to have had a mistake to meet? No, I wouldn’t but there are ways to move forward and to grow and yeah, that’s what I offer is I offer my experience and my coaching services and helping people through that journey, hopefully take away the mystery and the confusion and overwhelm. I can’t take away the pain but I can help with the process.

Robin Daly
Right, which can be pretty painful in yourselves. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, well, that’s fantastic. So, it’s a kind of mix between what you’ve learned through radical remission and just with your own experience. Yeah. So, you know, maybe you’ve mentioned one or two things that you would look at with people. Do you want to go into a bit more detail of the kind of selection of things that you feel you can bring to the table?

Emma Sabin
Yeah. I mean, we can, you know, having, looking at the radical remission side of things, I mean, first of all, you know, there’s the nutrition aspect, you know, most people, they desperately want to know what is right and what is wrong. And there is no right and wrong. So, you know, we would look at what, what do their blood tests show? I mean, I’m not a trained nutritionist. Right. But I can, I can, I do have a lot of information about what works for me, and what, what science shows that is right for the body and inflammation. So the key things are, as we know, potentially taking out the inflammatory products, such as dairy, such as processed meat, such as sugar and alcohol, and even that in itself, being told you shouldn’t drink. There’s the information on that. But then guiding someone through that, you know, who wants to be told they can’t drink alcohol again if they’re 40 years old. It’s, that’s quite a, that’s an emotional journey in itself. So, you know, that’s a pure example of, well, I’d be giving them the information about what alcohol or if they wanted to drink how they should have and how they should consume it and pretend perhaps, you know, maybe looking at ways to enjoy life without alcohol, which is, which is what I had to do. If you’re young and you’re suddenly told, oh, you can’t go out and have a let’s face it, you know, we have a big drinking culture.

Emma Sabin
There are many, many ways to have fun without drinking and I’ve learnt those ways, you know?

Robin Daly
Well, that’s really a great example because you’re right. You can just read this stuff and it’s a piece of information. And of course, yeah, you can give them that piece of information or they could have found it somewhere else. But there’s a massive gap between a piece of information and actually finding your way to implement that advice in your life. So as a coach, that’s what you’re doing is you’re actually maybe you’re finding the target. Yeah, this is a good target to not be having alcohol, but then you’re helping them to get there.

Emma Sabin
Yeah. And it’s just finding what’s that path? What’s right for them? I occasionally do have an alcoholic drink now because I’m 10 years on. And actually the joy it gives me to say yes to are the occasional campari actually outweighs the negative side. So for me, that works, but that’s, you know, four or five times a year. And that’s my journey. And it’s just, you know, everything has to be made right for them. You know, even for instance, one of the factors is having a strong reason for living. Well, a lot of people would say, well, my strong reason for living, you know, is I have a family, I have children. Well, I don’t have children. I’ve had to come to terms with not being a mum. And so some people might turn around and say, well, I have no reason for living. You know, I don’t have children. That’s tough, you know? And so it’s about helping someone navigate their way into what does life look like? What does life look like? Who am I after cancer? What makes me happy? What gives me joy? Because we know joy is a massive medicine, you know, massive, massive medicine. And, you know, even just really thinking what made me happy as a child, you know, a lot of people forget, you know, I love dance. And I realized I wasn’t dancing enough as an adult. And do you know that the joy it brings for me to dance and for me to be silly and for me to be a child and to act like a child, it’s as good as a million turmeric shots, I think. I really do, you know, that the positive emotions. And so, yeah, my work is really finding out about the person, finding out about what fears they have, what are they, you know, where do they feel they need to move forward or they want to move forward and just bringing the joy back in their life and bringing some balance and taking the fear away. Because for me, cancer was all about fear, understandably. And ironically, I mean, when I’ve been abroad and I’ve talked about cancer, you know, a lot of, you hear a lot about, you know, it’s just an imbalance in the body. You know, they talk about it very lightly. You just have to sort of, you know, start doing this again and, you know, you rebalance your body and get it back into the healthy. I mean, it’s not as simple as that. Obviously, it sounds very glib, but there’s an, you know, I think taking away that fear and just thinking, okay, I just need to bring myself back into balance with me. And also, I’m a massive, believer in bringing ourselves back into working with the earth, so back to the circadian rhythm, back to connecting, you know. I was shocked when I learned how disconnected I was. I was rarely out there, rarely had my feet on the ground, rarely had the right light around me. And so, I teach people how to reconnect and how to use the earth to increase their health.

Robin Daly
Well, I think that’s something which has gone from the wild and wacky to being almost mainstream thanks to Covid. I mean, you know, people have realised that you could sit in a little flat in the fourth story and go bonkers, or you could get out in nature. And you know, I think, yeah, and people had the time, many people, to do it as well. They had the time to go for walks in the country and things and really experience firsthand the benefit of those things. So, yeah, I think it’s quite stunning how quickly that’s moved into feeling normal. Yes. That the human beings need that stuff a little while ago and they’ve even thought about it. There is now. Of course, it was completely crackpot, you know, to live your whole life in sort of concrete and artificial light and treated air and all this stuff and think that that was OK for a human body.

Emma Sabin
This one doctor that really moved my health forward, he told me about light, but he gave me these rules. One of them was to get cold every day. We all know about having a cold shower now, don’t we, and the benefits of that. But when I first started doing it, I was like, oh gosh, but I realized it did actually make me happy. There was another example of using the physical aspect. I increased my serotonin, and he would suggest to me, I’m always telling my clients, there’s so many things you can do to make these harder things easy. For instance, if you’re having a cold shower, and you don’t want to stand under it, because it’s hard, you can put a song on. I always put Mr. Blue Sky. I think it’s five minutes, or five to six minutes, and I sing that whilst I’m in the shower, or if I’m in a bath, or if I’m in a seat, and apparently that increases your bagel tone, which uses your vagus nerve and calms your nervous system. But it distracts you, distracts you from the cold. And so, yeah, there’s another really quick example of how you can make it easy and fun. And going back to the radical remission factors, one of them is increasing positive emotions, and one of the scientific studies is singing, increases your vagus nerve, and makes you happy. So, again, there’s very, very, very small things you can do to just make, and it’s not even about cancer, it’s about making life happier, it’s about making, you know.

Robin Daly
It is, yeah. These are all things that I’ve-

Emma Sabin
I wish I’d been taught when I was at school.

Robin Daly
yeah, a good living class. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was just very struck when you were talking back when you talked about this strength of your will to live. And in terms of questions that without a bit of prompting, you might not ask at all. That’s a great example, I think, because I think many people in the face of something like cancer actually do find that their will to live is not very strong. And maybe they’ve been living like that with a very weak will to live for years. Quite unaware of it. And cancer is a time where, well, if you don’t address that, well, obviously you’re in a severely weakened position when it comes to actually getting yourself well. It’s like to undermine any attempts you make. So it’s a great question to be asked, is how strong is your will to live? And then, you know, because you’ve put it under the spotlight, well, there is the chance that it may change as a result of your investigations. You might find out there are much better reasons for being alive than you were previously aware of.

Emma Sabin
Yeah, I mean, some people just want to write that book, you know, and they realize that they’ve got a book in them, all that, they’ve got a painting in them, you know, and it doesn’t have to be big. It doesn’t have to change the world, but it can change your world and it can change the world of the people around you. And, you know, what is your reason for getting up in the morning? What makes you excited, you know, is it to, even if it’s just the plant that you want to keep alive or, you know, the cat or the dog, you want to, it’s the small things, I think. And yeah, and I think that’s where it’s just taking a different look at it, isn’t it? You know, it can be the lonely aspect of having cancer. It’s huge. It’s huge.

Robin Daly
Hey, I agree. That’s it.

Emma Sabin
And I think, you know, I know for me, I had a lot of blame. I had a lot of, well, I got it because of this or this, you know, I was like, what have I done wrong? And obviously that’s old childhood patterns, but there is a stigma, there’s a huge stigma, you know, and I’m coaching a gentleman at the moment and there’s shame, there’s shame with the cancer world. I know because I’ve had it and I don’t, yeah, there’s no reason for that because it’s not something we’ve done. And it might be because of ways we’re living or the environment around us, who knows whatever it is. But in the same way, it takes a myriad of reasons for the body to be unwell, it takes a myriad of reasons to get it well. And yeah, I just, I just really want to spread the word that it can easily be undone. It can, you know, and I want to, I want to help people to see there are nicer ways to live and cheerleader for them. So yeah.

Robin Daly
hmm hmm fantastic. So look, Andy got a few minutes left but I’d like to come back to the major issue which you said is a major issue for you but I think you know it’s a very common major issue which is the fear aspect. This is the biggest thing that comes up when your plans for the future you know what’s going to happen in your life all the rest of it is suddenly put in the bin and you’re faced with total uncertainty a sort of ongoing uncertainty of stumbling from one scan to the next and then you know all the procedures you go through that never bring the certainty there you bring the next question and you know and what it’s like to to move through that and what moving through that can look like and what can be the other side. So I wonder if you say a bit about that just to finish off.

Emma Sabin
All I would say is, is just, there’s a lot of help out there. You know, there’s so much help out there now. Um, obviously unfortunately cancer, because it are on the increase, but I think the, the support is on the increase. And I think, I mean, I, I have often thought, what would I do if I ever got cancer again? It’s that big fear, it’s there, that shadow. And, and it’s the same advice I give to people who, who contact me, you know, just, just friends in the first instance, I said, do nothing. I would do absolutely nothing for the first two weeks. Almost kind of, you know, which sounds, it sounds a little bit like bad advice. Obviously you’re going to do the hospital things, but don’t react, you know, just sit, connect to nature, connect to yourself, connect, you know, I think I would probably take myself somewhere and connect to myself again and really try and ground myself for a start, um, so that I could be strong in the decisions I was making, but it goes back to what I was saying, I’ve said many times, you know, I, cancer is, is really, it’s, it’s something that’s going wrong in the body for very many different reasons. And there are ways to put it right. There are so many ways to put it right. And they don’t have to cost loads and loads of money. There are so many simple ways to put these things right. You know, and it does take time and it does take, um, it takes some, some bravery to get through it, but everyone can do it. And there’s, there’s lots of people out there that can support them. So whilst I can’t say don’t be frightened, because that’s natural. Um, just trusting, I think that’s the thing. I mean, I sound like a hippie now, but you know, trusting if I’d, that there is, you know, things do sometimes happen for reasons and there is somebody out there that can help.

Robin Daly
Very good, like yourself. So maybe you want to just let people know how you work with people and how listeners can find out more.

Emma Sabin
Yeah. So it’s very simple in terms of my details. Shine through cancer.com. That’s got all my social media handles on there. I’m on Instagram and Facebook and can contact me on WhatsApp or email. So I run workshops. I run radical remission workshops. I prefer to work them in person. I like in person. I love bringing people together because I think that’s therapy in itself. But I also obviously work one on one, which is also very important. And I work on Zoom. And yeah, I basically meet you where you’re at and just try and provide you with as much information as I can, but also giving you the space to experience and feel what you need to experience, which I think is really important, that time and space, which your family member can’t help you in the same way, because there’s so much emotional baggage there, isn’t there? You know, it’s not. So yeah.

Robin Daly
Okay, fair enough. And because you like meeting in person, that means somewhere. So where would you be meeting in person?

Emma Sabin
Well, I work in London. I actually also live in Ibiza half of the time. I actually moved to Ibiza for my health reasons. I actually moved there for some sunlight. But yes, I’m in London. And yeah, I mean, I don’t work as much in person as I’d like to, but that’s my goal. I would like to work more with people. Because I think that’s healing in itself.

Robin Daly
I agree. Yeah. Okay. Well, lovely to talk to you, Emma. Thank you very much for telling us all about your work and wish you the very best with what you’re doing.

Emma Sabin
Thank you very much. Thank you so much for having me. Pleasure to meet you.

Robin Daly
Thank you, bye-bye. And the website again is shinethroughcancer.com and do also take a look at the Radical Remission Project at radicalremission.com. If you’ve yet to read the groundbreaking book by Dr. Kelly Turner, Radical Remission, then don’t waste any time getting hold of a copy. There’s also a powerful 10-part docu-series called Radical Remission, the first episode of which is available to watch free on YouTube. A reminder of the upcoming Yes to Life annual conference. This year it’s on October the 7th in central London, which may seem a long way off, but by visiting yes to life annual conference.org now and booking your place, you’ll ensure you get access to this unique event at the lowest possible cost. An attendee at last year’s conference wrote, it was one of the best things I’ve ever done. It really was life changing for me. This year’s event has the title, You and Your Cancer Team, and will provide attendees with a mass of information and experience of the enormous range of resources that are now on offer to people with cancer. You’ll get to meet others who share your interests, to speak directly to experts and suppliers of specialist products and services. Everyone who attends will go away at the end of the day with new resources and connections to support them. The website again is yes to life annual conference.org, where you can read more about the speakers and workshop leaders, about the program for the day, and of course, where you can book your place. Thanks very much for listening today, I’d love you to join me again next week when I’ll be back for another Yes To Life show.