Transcript Disclaimer – Please note that the following transcription has been machine generated by an AI software and therefore may include errors and ommissions.

Robin Daly
Hello and welcome to the Yes to Life show on UK Health Radio. My name’s Robin Daly and besides hosting this show, I’m the founder of Yes to Life, UK’s integrative cancer care charity, helping people with cancer learn about the ways that they can help themselves through lifestyle and complementary medicine, a vast resource to improve wellbeing and outcomes of cancer treatment. Today is the first of two shows that I’m using to focus on a hugely popular natural complementary therapy with a long track record of helping people in a variety of ways, mistletoe. For this first show, I’m talking to one of the UK’s most pioneering doctors, someone who’s been championing integrative medicine for many years and who’s becoming a regular on this show, Dr. Elizabeth Thompson. Dr. Thompson has long experience with the use of mistletoe in cancer and is currently heading out for service to deliver this therapy. Hi Elizabeth, so pleased to have you back on the show again.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
And I am delighted to be here, Robin. Thank you very much for asking me again.

Robin Daly
I always really appreciate discussing integrative medicine matters with you because you think very deeply about these methods and you’ve got a lot to share, so really great. So just briefly for any listeners who haven’t come across you before, can you tell us a little bit about your medical background and also about the important work you’re doing right now?

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
Yes. So I trained in cancer medicine, radiotherapy, oncology. I then found a niche in palliative medicine and continued training to be a consultant. I loved the mind -body spirit approach of palliative care, the flatter hierarchy, the time when everything slows down and the interventions stop and the conversations start and then this incredible mystery of death, which is such a privilege to witness. And during that time of training, I also got introduced to a range of integrative, we call them integrative approaches now, but back in the day, there were complementary approaches like immunopathy, like hypnosis, neuro -linguistic programming, nutrition, and little did I know that I was slowly becoming an integrative… But when I finished training and was a consultant, then a very unusual NHS post came up in Bristol, in the Bristol Hemiopathic Hospital, and I was able to set up an integrative cancer care service from there and worked in the NHS, well, you know, all of my career, but I was in Bristol until 2019.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
The hemiopathic service was being wound down by the NHS. We were spinning it out, what remained into a social enterprise, and then we just started to build right back up with the social enterprise now, a real diverse model of integrative medicine. I always like to talk about the intelligent combination of conventional, functional, holistic, and lifestyle approaches, all in one model. So, set up the National Centre for Integrative Medicine 10 years ago, we’ve been in our beautiful physical home in Hamgreen, co -located with Penny Brom, but another of other like -minded organisations. And yeah, I would say we’re really thriving now, we’ve just got 11 medical students with us learning about optimum health for later life, so they have a whole well -being series with the elders, people over 55 like me, but older, looking at food for well -being, tai chi for well -being, breath for well -being, herbs for well -being, food for well -being, but also speaking to a palliative care physician,

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
speaking to a geriatrician, so yeah, really connecting to the conventional teams, but also really getting an experience of just this incredible diversity. And sometimes that diversity is delivered within what we call the third sector, the charitable social enterprise sector. So that’s where NCIM sits, we’re a not -for -profit and everything that’s created through surplus goes back in to delivering care. And we, just to say the four pillars of NCIM, the clinical, which we’re going to talk about, which has a team of mistletoe experts, and then we also have the education programmes, I’ve spoken about the students, but we’ve got health care professionals about to start on a master’s programme in integrative health care, GPs, pharmacists, health coaches, surgeons, nurses, midwives, psychologists, all learning about this model. And we’ve got our community outreach where we go out into community, grant funded, we’re just doing cancer for mindfulness.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
People can still book on, but there’s only a few places. If you live in Avonmouth and you’re listening to this podcast, there is a course that is new, and then we have our membership as well.

Robin Daly
Amazing, all that great stuff you’re doing. It’s great that those things are on offer now, all that trading and resources. But it’s also, it’s great that so many people within healthcare are now actually interested to learn this stuff. It’s marvelous. And that you think of those medical students, what they’re going out, how well equipped they’re going out to actually help people is fantastic.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
And one of them has set up the Bristol University Society for Integrative Meds. Oh yeah. And then that spreads the word. And I just came away from NCIM meeting a GP who wants to be part of the team delivering some functional medicine elements for men’s health. So honestly, doctors are really wanting to do it differently.

Robin Daly
Excellent. Not for full time. Love it. Love it. Very good. I just came back to where you started your journey there where you’re talking about palliative care. I think it’s so interesting what a different culture exists in palliative care and what’s grown up and now in the hospice movement and everything. There’s really a whole different attitude going on there and the door is open to a much more broad -minded approach to health than you’ll ever find in the NHS and they seem quite content to just leave it completely siloed like that. There’s no sort of learning going on by the NHS about the successes they’re having in palliative care and in hospices.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
I know, I think that, you know, the holistic model that was originally set up really compassionate empowered listening, you know, trying to really listen.

Robin Daly
Yeah.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
And then I think because many of the hospices, again, were slightly separate in the third sector, it gave autonomy to its teams to really deliver the kind of care that they really wanted to deliver. And of course, nurses are often real holists and they drive that care, massage or in the therapy oils, meditation, breath, yeah, it’s refreshing. As you say, we need to feed back in now. For this broken system that we’re Lord Darcy today, the court was just like, it’s not working anymore.

Robin Daly
absolutely right. Well you know just that one thing you mentioned at the beginning of this listening culture I mean that’s just completely alien to the NHS as well as I can tell really it’s such a simple basic thing but it’s really it’s not there and yeah it’d be so great but anyway much work to be done eh? Right so anyway today’s show we’re homing in on mistletoe as a therapy so as a topic it’s always popular with listeners and unsurprisingly so it’s very useful so firstly do we know how old the whole concept of mistletoe as a medicine is?

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
when it goes right back to the Druids, who would bring the mistletoe down from the trees, cut with a copper scythe that was thought to, in itself, allow the cutting and healing at the same time. So the Druids called it a cure -all. And it was described around, I think, 1860, being used for blood pressure. We know that it’s good for blood pressure. But it was Rudolf Steiner in around 1921 and Ita Wegman. It was very interesting to hear that Rudolf Steiner, who was a doctor, someone who is interested in medicine, in architecture, in education. He-

Robin Daly
agriculture. Yeah, agriculture. Okay.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
everything actually. So the biodynamic farming movement was born out of Rudolf Steiner’s thinking, but mistletoe came from a wonderful kind of combination of male and female, with Ita Wegman was a massage therapist, and Rudolf Steiner encouraged her to train in medicine. So she was one of the very first women in Switzerland to become a doctor, but they both had a very much a mind -body -spirit approach, and so for them mistletoe was sacred, they looked at its life cycle, they looked at the way it kind of ran counter to natural things. So it doesn’t have any roots, it lives like a ball on the tree, and it has those beautiful white berries at Christmas. So we associate, this is the mistletoe that we associate kissing under, but it’s actually poisonous at one dose, and then when diluted, it is a herbal preparation, but Rudolf Steiner was very particular about the way it should be vortexed, which would activate it.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
And just to say, Rudolf Steiner could see the spirit world, he could see the spirit of the tree, the plants, humans, and so, and I know this will sound crazy to your listeners, don’t worry, we will talk about science as well, he would, he would intuit where something would be really useful.

Robin Daly
Well, if you think of the amount of effort that’s gone into finding things that help with cancer, for him to be able to intuit one that actually is very useful for cancer, it’s extraordinary, isn’t it? I mean, I’d never cease to be amazed by that. I know.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
And he said that because this mistletoe was counter to normal things, he felt that somebody who developed cancer, who was kind of being overtaken by something, needed to be strengthened in what he called the form -giving processes. We didn’t know the immune system, even existed in 1921, but he was sure that mistletoe would strengthen the body. And of course, now it has been shown to stimulate your natural killer cells, your fighting, cancer fighting cells.

Robin Daly
Amazing, yeah. All right, so Rudolf there, he gave it a massive leg up basically as a medicine, and it was extraordinarily successful off the back of that. I mean, you know, it’s being used particularly in some countries very widely without really much evidence other than the clinical experience to go on until quite recently. I think that most of the evidence we got is really quite recent as far as I understand it. Is that right?

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
Yes, we started to get big observational data sets where mainly the anthroposophical doctors working in Germany and Switzerland were able to compare patients of theirs that had mistletoe and those that might be in more mainstream scent.

Robin Daly
And just to be just to be clear anthroposophical medicine is Rudolf Steiner’s style of medicine, which he invented as well Yeah, I do want to just give a two -line version of what anthroposophical medicine looks like

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
or maybe a one -line, anthroposophily, which is the science of the spirit of man. So it took me about 10 years to learn how to say anthroposophily. And I still struggle with it. But maybe I should also say that, you know, why did I even get interested in it? Well, I was in the Glasgow Homeopathic Hospital training and palliative care, but I had a research clinic. And in that research clinic, I was testing out whether homeopathic medicines were useful for women with breast cancer and menopausal symptoms. But many patients would also come and say, can you help me get mistletoe? No. And I then thought, all right, I should learn about this. It wasn’t available in the NHS at the time, apart from the NHS Homeopathic Hospital. So that’s where they were coming. And although I was training in conventional units, my research clinic was in the Glasgow Homeopathic Hospital. So I flew out to Allesheim. I went to the Eta Vegman Centre.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
I learned about anthroposophily. I learned about all the amazing art, movement, music, nature connection. And I also learned about mistletoe and how to how to administrate it and the science behind it.

Robin Daly
In many ways, anthroposophical medicine was ahead of the herd with what’s becoming reasonably common currency in lifestyle medicine now, and they were definitely ahead of the curve.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
Well, they were ahead of the curve because if you look at, I often use this idea of the terrain 10 where you, like all the different elements, genetic, environment, nutrition, hormonal, you name it, emotional and mental really important areas that might impact on the way your cancer develops and how you might respond to treatments. So, you know, the idea of what’s happening in the immune system, the anthroposophical teams were saying, well, look, if we’ve got to give chemo or radiotherapy that tend to depress the immune system, let’s think about how to strengthen it. So, so, yeah, they were totally ahead of the game. And just to come back to the science, in more recent years, for example, the Cochrane Review, where they take lots of different studies and they put them together, they were looking particularly at can Mistletoe improve quality of life and cancer treatments.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
And there was evidence, good evidence, that yes, it can increase quality of life and decrease side effects because of course you’re very much supporting the body to build resilience and cope with those cancer treatments.

Robin Daly
There’s a kind of unexpected bonus that it actually helps you with treatment side effect coming. That’s not what Rudolf’s time had in mind, I’m sure at the time, but you know, that’s fantastic. Yeah. So, okay. We’ll come back to that. I’d like to hear more about how it can help in that area, but maybe we could talk a little bit about the therapy itself now and what the mistletoe medicines look like and how are they administered.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
Yeah. So we’re a bit unusual at NCIM in that we, the National Center for Integrated Medicine, in that we offer both liquid mistletoe as well as mistletoe that’s a liquid but is injected. So either you can have it in a bottle where you have 15 drops in water and you drink it like a purple draft and you do that Monday to Friday, then you have weekends off. And then when the bottle runs out, you have a break and then you start again. So this is a really easy way to use it. And again, a little bit like Echinacea, which is that beautiful purple plant that’s just gone over now, but it’s late summer. We know that stimulates a slightly different part of the immune system. But the idea is that you don’t take it all the time. The body likes on and off and on and off because it’s a dynamic complex system. So in the same way with mistletoe, you take it and you have a break, you take it and have a break so that you’re restimulating the body.

Robin Daly
Alright.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
If we always personalize what really working out for the individual, what might be best for them? For some people, they might prefer the injected mistletoe or their cancer might be a little bit more advanced and we need a bit more immune stimulation and so then we will give it just a small injection 0 .01 milligram, 0 .1 milligram and 1 milligram so like varying doses will come in a seven vial box and then it’s given Monday Thursday, Monday Thursday until we finish the box then again we have a break and then start again. But what we’re trying to do is find the dose of mistletoe that the body’s responding to and the way that we work out that response is through the temperature, body temperature.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
We sometimes find someone who’s had a diagnosis, a cancer’s got a little bit low body temperature so the idea is to raise the baseline body temperature as a sign of general vitality but we’re also looking at the rhythms of the body, the circadian rhythm so we’re looking at the temperature at 10am and 4pm and seeing if there’s any modulation there. We look at general vitality which is a really important way to assess mistletoe and then a third element is the reaction, have you had a reaction around the injection site? You don’t want it too big, you want it around two to three centimetres.

Robin Daly
It’s like a red area, you mean.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
Yeah. So if, if one of those three things is happening, a really nice temperature rise, increase in wellbeing, then it might be that we, you know, that injection area isn’t so important, you know? Right. But if we haven’t got the other two, and no injection site, then no redness, which is a sign that those cells in the skin are taking up the stimulus, then we might go up to the next strength. So I just described something called OP0. Then we go up to, this is with Iscador. There are different types of Iscador. Then we go to 0 .1, 1, and 10 milligrams. So just gentle raising doses. But just to be fair to all the mistletoe providers, there are, I’m talking about Iscador, but we also recommend Helixor, which is another type of mistletoe, and then Abnobuscom. But we don’t provide, but other European centres do.

Robin Daly
Okay, so look, there’s a bit of a debate about these two types that you’re administering here, the oral and the injected. You’re obviously not saying one side or the other here, but some people are. So, what’s the debate and where do you stand on it?

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
Well, the debate is that taking mistletoe by mouth inactivates it in the stomach. But of course, we’ve got wonderful case histories where the, you know, for example, with some brain tumors where people got a good response to mistletoe and we don’t recommend injected mistletoe unless under very expert supervision. We don’t recommend the injections because you can sometimes get some inflammation around the tumor. So in case we would give it by mouth, and I’ve seen, you know, very good responses. I’ve seen some people with brain tumors living much longer than expected, that even, you know, glioblastomas, which are also, because I’ve seen these clinical experiences of people doing really well, I’m also aware with the vortexing and activation of the mistletoe that maybe it doesn’t matter so much about its absorption through the gut.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
So the debate is oral mistletoe can’t be active and yet we know it’s indicated in various settings clinically. And yet I love again, as you know, diversity and choice. Some people really don’t want injections. They’ve had enough injections. So again, this psychology for me of that choice, it’s important.

Robin Daly
Yeah. Interesting. So you’re pitting clinical experience against theoretical understanding of the mechanism, yeah?

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
I would absolutely love someone to do a really good trial of oral mistletoe against injected mistletoe.

Robin Daly
Okay, good, very interesting, thank you. So, there are two other types of administration of mistletoe that I hear about. One of them being intravenous and the other one being intratumural. So, both very interesting. Is there anything you can tell us about those?

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
Yes, I mean, I’ve seen both used in the centers I’ve been and studied. When you give it intravenously, you enhance side effects. And it looks a bit like at the time I was there, I was giving quite a lot of interferon injections for things like malignant melanoma. And then with interferon, you’d get fever, bone pain, malaise, you know, not feeling well, a bit like a really bad dose of COVID that, you know, is really switching the immune system on. So again, you know, the team up in Aberdeen, give intravenous, I think that we don’t, and I, at NCM, because we’re not, we’re really not trying to say that we are treating the cancer and there are people who might want to treat the cancer.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
So in the same way, the intertumoral, where you actually might inject into the breast cancer or, you know, into maybe head and neck cancers, things like that. Yeah, I’m the middle way where I would be saying actually maybe a small amount of chemo would help, but let’s, you know, a different type of chemo or as you know, there are lots of new immunotherapies now. But let’s really try and enhance the body. But the teams do use it. I just feel it slightly strays into an area that’s of real uncharted territory, which is using mistletoe to treat cancer rather than using it to support people undergoing cancer treatments.

Robin Daly
Yeah, it definitely feels like it’s frontier use of mistletoe, but interesting though, and I’ve heard good reports, so. Okay, interesting. And just to go back to the injections, so people understand that this is something which is self -administered in general, isn’t it? People actually go home with a kit, and they learn how to do it themselves, and it’s a subcutaneous injection, so it’s not really a full injection, it’s just under the skin and usually around the midriff somewhere, is that right?

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
That’s right. We do supervise that first injection because actually learning how to even snap open the vial and then the fluid into the syringe, then pinching an inch in those four quadrants, yes, of the tummy, because you want to move the injection around so that you don’t inject into the same place. All of that needs guidance, so we insist on one, under supervision, if the oncologist or your GP or your cancer nurse specialist will do it great, but if not, then we organise that. And I prefer to because, you know, it just takes a while to build your confidence. You’re kind of putting it in at a 45 degree angle, learning just how to pinch an inch and get it subcutiously, it’s a bit more complicated than an insulin injection, if any, if you type one diabetics, but it’s not much harder than that, so most people can get used to it. Some people don’t like it and their partners will give it to them.

Robin Daly
Right. Okay, great. So, on to the good stuff now. What about the benefits of using mistletoe? Can we just talk about the range of benefits?

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
Yes, just to add to my middle ground, I was teaching to vets the use of mistletoe, and there was one vet who sees a lot of animals with cancer, and she only uses oral, and she’d seen some amazing responses. So I do just want to say that mistletoe, yeah, it can be pretty amazing. Okay. But the main effects are the stimulation of your natural killer cells, which are your little defense army, and when you’ve had a diagnosis of cancer, the thing you really want is for it not to come back. So the idea of enhancing that team of defenders, called the natural killer cells, makes a lot of sense, and one of the things that can be a bit difficult is when to stop mistletoe. So I tend to talk about 12 to 18 months post treatments that are curative, but building up the immune system afterwards, using a range of approaches, not just mistletoe.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
So stimulating the immune system, but also endorphin release. People seem to feel better in their moods. So endorphins are these natural opiates that might be released when we’re running and things like that. Reduction in pain, definitely reduction in mucusitis, so that’s inflammation of the mouth that you might get with cancer treatments, and also a reduction in the need for antibiotics, because the immune system is enhanced, then the person is less susceptible. The other thing I noticed is one of the first things I noticed using mistletoe is that people might come having had a couple of cycles of chemotherapy, and their white cells were dropping, and then we’d start the mistletoe, and their white cells weren’t dropping, and so they could have their chemo on time.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
So it’s interesting that the Society for Integrative Oncology, which is the big organization in the States, they’re now recommending mistletoe in breast cancer. They feel there’s enough research, but if I was an oncologist, I’d want to give the chemo on time, and allow people to complete their courses in good shape.

Robin Daly
Yeah, which of course is amazingly common that people don’t, they start off doing well and then it goes downhill as time goes on. And yeah, quite often never gets the end. So yeah, so does make complete sense, as you say. Yeah, okay, well, that’s quite a rage. And interestingly enough, I think the one you mentioned about mood is probably extremely important because that actually affects so much of one’s experience of being treated for cancer. It’s just your outlook and can so easily take a dive when the treatments are so bad, when you’re not feeling great, when your energy is low, when your general vitality is down, you’re maybe not sleeping so well. All these things compound to make you depressed, basically, don’t they? And that’s an awful place to be horrible treatment and depressed.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
Yeah. And I’ve just seen that so consistently where the person says, I just feel a whole lot better. That’s lovely. And sometimes when doctors or students are sitting in with me, we kind of look at the person on paper before they come in, and then the person comes in and the student’s like, well, I thought they were having cancer that spread to a few places, and then this person comes in full of vitality.

Robin Daly
Right. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. Okay. Well, we knock on so much time, but just to say that one of the extraordinary things about mistletoe is its application to almost everybody with cancer, it seems, which is extraordinary. I mean, how many other things can you say that about? And not so many. And hence, one of the reasons is to claim to be the most widely used alternative approach to cancer. Yeah. So I can well believe it. To get a little bit practical towards the end of the show, if people want to get mistletoe in the UK, what does it look like now?

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
Yeah, there are quite a few centres now along with ourselves in Bristol, Nina Fuller -Chavelle, their team office at the Royal London Homeopathic Hospital, Glasgow, you know, it’s available now across the UK, but you can go on the Mistletoe website for providers.

Robin Daly
Right.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
And a lot of the consultation can be done on Zoom, you know, the assessment for what might be appropriate. So we see people from all over the UK, Ireland, Europe, you know, getting those injections if you can get a friendly clinician on board, and I would always recommend, you know, a clinician so that they know that you’re starting it and feel good about it. But yeah, the Mistletoe websites can be helpful.

Robin Daly
okay that’s great and yeah i mean do you think more people are using mistletoe in the uk than were

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
absolutely sure of that. The number we have referrals, people self -refer to us, but that’s why we’ve now got a team of four doctors in our mistletoe team because we’re getting so many referrals. I think particularly when the Society for Intricative Oncology said, we approve this, I think we felt a real surge in interest because I think the thing I haven’t said is just how safe mistletoe is.

Robin Daly
Right, very important, yeah.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
I’ve talked about the side effects of intravenous, and sometimes with injected, if you’re overstimulated, your temperature might go up and you might feel a little bit fluid, but then probably what we do is drop the dose down. We want the gentle dose. It’s incredibly well tolerated and in 30 years of prescribing it, it’s just something that I just feel good about because I know it’s safe. There are very few things you can say that…

Robin Daly
Absolutely, that have any real effect, yeah.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
test and I’ll say. And also the big studies, you know, where they’re big observational studies, the new immunotherapy treatments, mistletoe seems very safe with those as well and that’s important.

Robin Daly
a simple one because they are getting used increasingly yeah and how are attitudes towards missiles at one time you could persuade your GP to give it to you on prescription this kind of thing is it you know what’s the attitude within the NHS like

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
Unfortunately, it was Simon Stevens, who was the head of NHS England around 2018, told all doctors that they couldn’t prescribe any herbal or homeopathic preparations. They said, we’re not banning it, but we are advising you not to prescribe it. Sadly, yeah, they stopped all prescriptions. We do have bursaries within the NCIM because it’s difficult for people to access both the appointments and the medication, because unfortunately, people have to pay. You can’t prescribe it, but what an easy thing to remove from the end.

Robin Daly
compared to most of the things that are turning out, and yeah, and the harmless.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
25 ,000 a year for the new immunotherapies and I would say about probably a thousand a year for mistletoe, so it’s so frustrating. It’s very frustrating. And I didn’t say that there was a very nice, well, not a nice study, but an interesting study in pancreatic cancer, which as you know is a tough cancer to have, showing a prolongation in survival for those randomized to the mistletoe. And so again, to be on something that’s safe and doesn’t make you feel worse, but helps with your survival, that’s really…

Robin Daly
Yeah, amazing. Well, let’s hope all those doctors you’re training up at the NCIM are going to go out there and demand that they’re able to prescribe this stuff.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
Well, I think things could swing round again.

Robin Daly
Well, I’d say that’s what they got to, you ready?

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
They’ve, they’ve absolutely got to, yeah. And, and the, the, the companies like Iskador and Helixor and Abnobaviskam, they have a very high value and vision of, of, of health. So, you know, they’re not like bad pharma. They really are companies that I feel good to be associated with. And I think that’s important, you know, that you, you trust the preparation.

Robin Daly
Absolutely right. Okay, well look, last word, how strong a case would you make for mistletoe and modality for every cancer patient to at least consider?

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
Yes, I’m not an every woman, as you know, you’re like, it’s really important to decide what feels right for you because you may be using other immune therapies, for example, or you may be using immune modulators like mushrooms. But I think all I can say is that when my sister got cancer, I recommended she had mistletoe. I think it’s more about the length of time that you have it for, but I just think having it as a friend alongside your treatments, or if you’re through your treatments and you’re fatigued, it’s just a course of mistletoe. Yeah, I mean, I’d be hard pushed to not recommend it. Right. Okay, that’s great.

Robin Daly
That’s good to know, yeah. All right, well, thanks so much. It was a bit of a fascinating look at one of nature’s remarkable resources for cancer support. I’m sure there’s lots of listeners out there who are going to be really appreciative of what you’ve shared today, so big thanks.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
And if any of you are going to the yes to live conference, we’re going to be there. Some of my team will be there. You can talk more if you’ve been to the conference and hearing this afterwards, then hopefully you manage to say hello. We’ll have a little bit of mistletoe on our stall.

Robin Daly
Excellent. Thank you very much.

Dr Elizabeth Thompson
Thanks Robin, always lovely to talk to you, take care, bye.